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PMB wrote:
WaJim wrote:
Jonathan Brown wrote:
Franken is a twit. But I doubt he's a sex predator. Being a comedian doesn't give you a pass,.

Frankin is a predator...he fukin shoved his tongue down her throat...they were supposed to be "practicing a scene".

Kreepy friken predator.

Did you miss the part when she said she ran to the bathroom and washed out her mouth?

Somebody should have kicked his ass.

Second, when did it not be mandatory that for a person to be considered a comedian that they be funny?

Franken defends himself on this charge by saying that he remembers the incident differently.
There is enough grey area in this story that I can't see any reasonable possibility of a conviction as a sex predator, based on that incident alone. Am I wrong?
Ass kicking? Yes... I wish that SHE had taken him down and delivered a beating at the time it happened, and made it publicly known THEN.
Instead of correct "justice", these incidents are now being used as political weapons to damage each side in turn... What are we waiting for? Which side (D or R) has less sex perverts than the other, so that side can declare victory?

The photo actually shows a crime, several legal analysts have said it may even be within the statute of limitations depending on exactly where it occurred.

As for Bob Menendez, the FBI has evidence he hired underage prostitutes. Where is the hard evidence on Moore? Oh that's right, there is none.

I'm seeing a pattern here:
-Bill Clinton: physical evidence and even settlements, disbarment, censure, etc.
-Al Franken: admission of guilt, physical evidence, etc.
-Bob Menendez: court filings/evidence

-Moore: no evidence, hearsay from 30-40 years ago, several accusers worked for/donated to his opponent and Hillary, several accusers already caught in lies
-Trump: talked about concept of something but no actions, one accuser who initiated legal action dropped the suit and pretty much admitted it never happened

_________________
If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto).
If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/
Quote:
“I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.”

https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738
Quote:
[Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them"


Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:07 am
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WaJim wrote:
PMB wrote:
Franken defends himself on this charge by saying that he remembers the incident differently.
There is enough grey area in this story that I can't see any reasonable possibility of a conviction as a sex predator, based on that incident alone. Am I wrong?
Ass kicking? Yes... I wish that SHE had taken him down and delivered a beating at the time it happened, and made it publicly known THEN.
Instead of correct "justice", these incidents are now being used as political weapons to damage each side in turn... What are we waiting for? Which side (D or R) has less sex perverts than the other, so that side can declare victory?


Whats his version of the incident?


From his first "apology" which was roundly criticized as awful:
Quote:
I certainly don’t remember the rehearsal for the skit in the same way, but I send my sincerest apologies to Leeann,” he said. “As to the photo, it was clearly intended to be funny but wasn’t. I shouldn’t have done it.



Then his full apology that Alpine posted here : viewtopic.php?f=33&t=85921&start=75#p841165

Quote:
"The first thing I want to do is apologize: to Leeann, to everyone else who was part of that tour, to everyone who has worked for me, to everyone I represent, and to everyone who counts on me to be an ally and supporter and champion of women. There's more I want to say, but the first and most important thing—and if it's the only thing you care to hear, that's fine—is: I'm sorry.
"I respect women. I don't respect men who don't. And the fact that my own actions have given people a good reason to doubt that makes me feel ashamed.
"But I want to say something else, too. Over the last few months, all of us—including and especially men who respect women—have been forced to take a good, hard look at our own actions and think (perhaps, shamefully, for the first time) about how those actions have affected women.
"For instance, that picture. I don't know what was in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn't matter. There's no excuse. I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn't funny. It's completely inappropriate. It's obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture. And, what's more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it—women who have had similar experiences in their own lives, women who fear having those experiences, women who look up to me, women who have counted on me.
"Coming from the world of comedy, I've told and written a lot of jokes that I once thought were funny but later came to realize were just plain offensive. But the intentions behind my actions aren't the point at all. It's the impact these jokes had on others that matters. And I'm sorry it's taken me so long to come to terms with that.
"While I don't remember the rehearsal for the skit as Leeann does, I understand why we need to listen to and believe women's experiences.
"I am asking that an ethics investigation be undertaken, and I will gladly cooperate.
"And the truth is, what people think of me in light of this is far less important than what people think of women who continue to come forward to tell their stories. They deserve to be heard, and believed. And they deserve to know that I am their ally and supporter. I have let them down and am committed to making it up to them."


Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:07 am
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Alpine wrote:
PMB wrote:
WaJim wrote:
Jonathan Brown wrote:
Franken is a twit. But I doubt he's a sex predator. Being a comedian doesn't give you a pass,.

Frankin is a predator...he fukin shoved his tongue down her throat...they were supposed to be "practicing a scene".

Kreepy friken predator.

Did you miss the part when she said she ran to the bathroom and washed out her mouth?

Somebody should have kicked his ass.

Second, when did it not be mandatory that for a person to be considered a comedian that they be funny?

Franken defends himself on this charge by saying that he remembers the incident differently.
There is enough grey area in this story that I can't see any reasonable possibility of a conviction as a sex predator, based on that incident alone. Am I wrong?
Ass kicking? Yes... I wish that SHE had taken him down and delivered a beating at the time it happened, and made it publicly known THEN.
Instead of correct "justice", these incidents are now being used as political weapons to damage each side in turn... What are we waiting for? Which side (D or R) has less sex perverts than the other, so that side can declare victory?

The photo actually shows a crime, several legal analysts have said it may even be within the statute of limitations depending on exactly where it occurred.

As for Bob Menendez, the FBI has evidence he hired underage prostitutes. Where is the hard evidence on Moore? Oh that's right, there is none.

I'm seeing a pattern here:
-Bill Clinton: physical evidence and even settlements, disbarment, censure, etc.
-Al Franken: admission of guilt, physical evidence, etc.
-Bob Menendez: court filings/evidence

-Moore: no evidence, hearsay from 30-40 years ago, several accusers worked for/donated to his opponent and Hillary, several accusers already caught in lies
-Trump: talked about concept of something but no actions, one accuser who initiated legal action dropped the suit and pretty much admitted it never happened



The only PATTERN is this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

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Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:09 am
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Alpine wrote:
The photo actually shows a crime, several legal analysts have said it may even be within the statute of limitations depending on exactly where it occurred.

I am not a legal analyst, but to my untrained eye the photo of Franken with his hands in front of Leeann's chest does not include contact... I see it as sophomoric and idiotic... Basically a grown man acting like a 14 year old boy.
Straight up- I do not know all the facts. There may be other photos, or my line separating sophomoric behavior from criminal behavior may be incorrectly placed.


Alpine wrote:
As for Bob Menendez, the FBI has evidence he hired underage prostitutes. Where is the hard evidence on Moore? Oh that's right, there is none.

I'm seeing a pattern here:
-Bill Clinton: physical evidence and even settlements, disbarment, censure, etc.
-Al Franken: admission of guilt, physical evidence, etc.
-Bob Menendez: court filings/evidence

-Moore: no evidence, hearsay from 30-40 years ago, several accusers worked for/donated to his opponent and Hillary, several accusers already caught in lies
-Trump: talked about concept of something but no actions, one accuser who initiated legal action dropped the suit and pretty much admitted it never happened

I see what you are saying, and I make ZERO differentiation between R's and D's. If there is a prosecutable offense and it is in the public's interest to prosecute, burn 'em down.
If the accusations have nothing that could be prosecuted for lack of evidence , public opinion is the operator of the day.
Unfortunately, we are seeing public opinion being swayed by a Main Stream Media that clearly has a bias against R's and for D's.


Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:15 am
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PMB wrote:
WaJim wrote:
PMB wrote:
Franken defends himself on this charge by saying that he remembers the incident differently.
There is enough grey area in this story that I can't see any reasonable possibility of a conviction as a sex predator, based on that incident alone. Am I wrong?
Ass kicking? Yes... I wish that SHE had taken him down and delivered a beating at the time it happened, and made it publicly known THEN.
Instead of correct "justice", these incidents are now being used as political weapons to damage each side in turn... What are we waiting for? Which side (D or R) has less sex perverts than the other, so that side can declare victory?


Whats his version of the incident?


From his first "apology" which was roundly criticized as awful:
Quote:
I certainly don’t remember the rehearsal for the skit in the same way, but I send my sincerest apologies to Leeann,” he said. “As to the photo, it was clearly intended to be funny but wasn’t. I shouldn’t have done it.



Then his full apology that Alpine posted here : http://waguns.org/viewtopic.php?f=33&t= ... 75#p841165

Quote:
"The first thing I want to do is apologize: to Leeann, to everyone else who was part of that tour, to everyone who has worked for me, to everyone I represent, and to everyone who counts on me to be an ally and supporter and champion of women. There's more I want to say, but the first and most important thing—and if it's the only thing you care to hear, that's fine—is: I'm sorry.
"I respect women. I don't respect men who don't. And the fact that my own actions have given people a good reason to doubt that makes me feel ashamed.
"But I want to say something else, too. Over the last few months, all of us—including and especially men who respect women—have been forced to take a good, hard look at our own actions and think (perhaps, shamefully, for the first time) about how those actions have affected women.
"For instance, that picture. I don't know what was in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn't matter. There's no excuse. I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn't funny. It's completely inappropriate. It's obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture. And, what's more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it—women who have had similar experiences in their own lives, women who fear having those experiences, women who look up to me, women who have counted on me.
"Coming from the world of comedy, I've told and written a lot of jokes that I once thought were funny but later came to realize were just plain offensive. But the intentions behind my actions aren't the point at all. It's the impact these jokes had on others that matters. And I'm sorry it's taken me so long to come to terms with that.
"While I don't remember the rehearsal for the skit as Leeann does, I understand why we need to listen to and believe women's experiences.
"I am asking that an ethics investigation be undertaken, and I will gladly cooperate.
"And the truth is, what people think of me in light of this is far less important than what people think of women who continue to come forward to tell their stories. They deserve to be heard, and believed. And they deserve to know that I am their ally and supporter. I have let them down and am committed to making it up to them."



I hope he's serious....and means what he said.

It sounds sincere.

That was a good apology....good on him and it showed he has class.

Which up to this point I didn't think he had. :thumbsup2:

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Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:25 am
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WaJim wrote:
I hope he's serious....and means what he said.

It sounds sincere.

That was a good apology....good on him and it showed he has class.

Which up to this point I didn't think he had. :thumbsup2:

I agree, he sounds sincere. Also agree, he doesn't seem like he has much class.
Does it qualify as reasons to step down from his Position of Trust? I am not an analyst, but my gut says no. I wouldn't vote for him, and I hope that the majority would not either. But obviously my choice of candidates doesn't mean squat, or we wouldn't be in a spiral decline of the Republic.

We have a precept in the United States of America- Presumption of Innocence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence

The burden of proof lies with the accuser, not with the accused. That is a legal precept mostly, but I apply it to most things that I hear and see. An accusation never reaches my threshold of innocent/guilty. (Would be different if I personally knew and trusted the accuser(s.)


Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:33 am
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Alpine wrote:
PMB wrote:
WaJim wrote:
Jonathan Brown wrote:
Franken is a twit. But I doubt he's a sex predator. Being a comedian doesn't give you a pass,.

Frankin is a predator...he fukin shoved his tongue down her throat...they were supposed to be "practicing a scene".

Kreepy friken predator.

Did you miss the part when she said she ran to the bathroom and washed out her mouth?

Somebody should have kicked his ass.

Second, when did it not be mandatory that for a person to be considered a comedian that they be funny?

Franken defends himself on this charge by saying that he remembers the incident differently.
There is enough grey area in this story that I can't see any reasonable possibility of a conviction as a sex predator, based on that incident alone. Am I wrong?
Ass kicking? Yes... I wish that SHE had taken him down and delivered a beating at the time it happened, and made it publicly known THEN.
Instead of correct "justice", these incidents are now being used as political weapons to damage each side in turn... What are we waiting for? Which side (D or R) has less sex perverts than the other, so that side can declare victory?

The photo actually shows a crime, several legal analysts have said it may even be within the statute of limitations depending on exactly where it occurred.

As for Bob Menendez, the FBI has evidence he hired underage prostitutes. Where is the hard evidence on Moore? Oh that's right, there is none.

I'm seeing a pattern here:
-Bill Clinton: physical evidence and even settlements, disbarment, censure, etc.
-Al Franken: admission of guilt, physical evidence, etc.
-Bob Menendez: court filings/evidence

-Moore: no evidence, hearsay from 30-40 years ago, several accusers worked for/donated to his opponent and Hillary, several accusers already caught in lies
-Trump: talked about concept of something but no actions, one accuser who initiated legal action dropped the suit and pretty much admitted it never happened



Clarence Thomas, Supreme Court Judge, noticed this as well, many years ago.

His accurate phrase of the slander against him was "a high-tech lynching".

For a black professional man in 1991 to use the word "lynching" about his work environment is reflective of how biased his coverage was against him.

IMO nothing has changed, it has gotten worse. The majority media is 99% Leftist Democrat, proven by their donation records, and the last 2 years has proven them to be the parroted tools they are. Journalistic professionalism is an oxymoron these days.


Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:40 am
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The whataboutery runs deep.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

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Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:51 am
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Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:54 am
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Jonathan Brown wrote:

But it's not JUST about whataboutery... is it?
You seem confident of the guilt of Moore (which I admit I don't know much about) ... Is there more evidence than accusations 3+ decades ago? How many accusations are there? Are the accusers beyond reproach?
I am looking to understand why you feel ready to accept such an old accusation as fact.
I'm not saying you are wrong- I have no idea if he committed those crimes back then.


Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:59 am
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PMB wrote:
WaJim wrote:
I hope he's serious....and means what he said.

It sounds sincere.

That was a good apology....good on him and it showed he has class.

Which up to this point I didn't think he had. :thumbsup2:

I agree, he sounds sincere. Also agree, he doesn't seem like he has much class.
Does it qualify as reasons to step down from his Position of Trust? I am not an analyst, but my gut says no. I wouldn't vote for him, and I hope that the majority would not either. But obviously my choice of candidates doesn't mean squat, or we wouldn't be in a spiral decline of the Republic.

We have a precept in the United States of America- Presumption of Innocence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence

The burden of proof lies with the accuser, not with the accused. That is a legal precept mostly, but I apply it to most things that I hear and see. An accusation never reaches my threshold of innocent/guilty. (Would be different if I personally knew and trusted the accuser(s.)

He has no class. He's only sorry he got caught.

Where was this class a month ago when he was lecturing others about denigrating women?

Think he would have spoke up if he hadn't been outed?

_________________
If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto).
If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/
Quote:
“I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.”

https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738
Quote:
[Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them"


Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:00 am
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Alpine wrote:
PMB wrote:
WaJim wrote:
I hope he's serious....and means what he said.

It sounds sincere.

That was a good apology....good on him and it showed he has class.

Which up to this point I didn't think he had. :thumbsup2:

I agree, he sounds sincere. Also agree, he doesn't seem like he has much class.
Does it qualify as reasons to step down from his Position of Trust? I am not an analyst, but my gut says no. I wouldn't vote for him, and I hope that the majority would not either. But obviously my choice of candidates doesn't mean squat, or we wouldn't be in a spiral decline of the Republic.

We have a precept in the United States of America- Presumption of Innocence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence

The burden of proof lies with the accuser, not with the accused. That is a legal precept mostly, but I apply it to most things that I hear and see. An accusation never reaches my threshold of innocent/guilty. (Would be different if I personally knew and trusted the accuser(s.)

He has no class. He's only sorry he got caught.

That is an assumption... but there is no way that you or I can know for sure, and as much as I dislike him, I would probably accept such an apology as sincere.

He's a politician though.
Also, it doesn't make too much difference if his apology is sincere or not. Is it an actionable prosecution? Is it in the public's best interest to prosecute him?
Being sincerely apologetic is nice and may be a mitigator when it comes to sentencing, but has nothing to do about the facts of a crime.

Alpine wrote:
Where was this class a month ago when he was lecturing others about denigrating women?

Think he would have spoke up if he hadn't been outed?

I am absolutely confident that he would not have spoken up about his own misdeeds without an outing. That has nothing to do with regret.
Do I suspect that his apology is meant to try to salvage what he can from a fiery wreck? Yep.


Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:05 am
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We don't need sick opportunists like him around, especially since he hates your civil rights and wants you disarmed with the government's jack-boot on your neck.

He should resign and go back to writing dumb jokes that few enjoy.

_________________
If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto).
If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/
Quote:
“I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.”

https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738
Quote:
[Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them"


Last edited by Alpine on Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:06 am
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He's a dipshit politically, but sorry, not gonna jump on the SEXUAL ASSAULT bandwagon. He kissed her harder than she liked, and he placed his hands over her tits while she was sleeping, in an attempt at making a funny photo. Big fucking deal. Boo hoo hoo. That chick is a total cunt.

That brings up another issue. If she had this photo all this time, why did it take so long to make it public?

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Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:07 am
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Alpine wrote:
We don't need sick opportunists like him around, especially since he hates your civil rights and wants you disarmed with the government's jack-boot on your neck.

He should resign and go back to writing dumb jokes that few enjoy.


But we need ALLEGED child molesters? I guess that's ok. We shouldn't look into that.

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Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:08 am
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