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It is currently Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:48 pm
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Gun Owners believing They Can Fight
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Old Growth
Site Supporter
Location: Nisqually Valley Joined: Wed Oct 5, 2016 Posts: 4834
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You talking to me?
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Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:58 pm |
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Mike_P
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Lacey Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 Posts: 395
Real Name: Mike
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There are SO many different possibilities when it comes to using force in response to an action that it's very hard to tell how anyone would act. You'll find that it doesn't matter if the person is extremely trained or not, but a majority of the people who think they would respond in one specific way are in fact all talk.
I can tell you, having killed someone in self defense that if you are not in control, not even you can predict what you'll do, so it's just better not to talk about it and avoid looking like a dick by telling the world what you'd do and how badly you'd mess someone up.
_________________Olympic Cerakote (07/02) Lacey, WA E: Info@olympiccerakote.comP: (360) 972-2955 Certified Cerakote Applicator Custom Firearm builds Firearm Sales/Special Orders Ammo/parts Sales
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Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:03 pm |
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mmalleck
Site Supporter
Location: Bellevue area - WA Joined: Wed Jan 9, 2013 Posts: 1435
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Rix86 wrote: jukk0u wrote: Well... I AM Tier One, so..... Pretty sure I'm tier ribeye these days. Pretty sure I'm pork belly...
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Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:03 pm |
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TechnoWeenie
Site Supporter
Location: Nova Laboratories Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 Posts: 18449
Real Name: Johnny 5
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Mike_P wrote: There are SO many different possibilities when it comes to using force in response to an action that it's very hard to tell how anyone would act. You'll find that it doesn't matter if the person is extremely trained or not, but a majority of the people who think they would respond in one specific way are in fact all talk.
I can tell you, having killed someone in self defense that if you are not in control, not even you can predict what you'll do, so it's just better not to talk about it and avoid looking like a dick by telling the world what you'd do and how badly you'd mess someone up. I'll add that training and experience won't guarantee success, or that shit won't go right out the window. When I was presented with a knife, and engaged, everything switched off, I had tunnel vision, and there was just an instinctual 'caveman' feeling of 'no' and 'him bad'....I felt like things just happened.. I was on autopilot...kinda like watching someone else fight from inside my own head. I wasn't scared during, but afterwards, I realized how quickly shit could have gone south had I not reacted the way I did.. It's fucking scary.. I think 'overwhelming violence' is probably the best way to describe it.
_________________NO DISASSEMBLE!Thomas Paine wrote: "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
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Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:01 pm |
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MorrisWR
Site Supporter
Location: Sammamish Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 Posts: 480
Real Name: Murray
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I advocate defensive hand to hand combat training before getting a gun and training to use that. There are many more scenarios and it is more likely you will have to defend yourself without a weapon. I have had several times where my hand to hand training has been used, even when I was armed. The idea of not stopping until the attacker is finished is what needs to be ingrained. Too many people are not mentally ready to attack the person with knees, elbows, kicks, etc until they have trained with someone who knows true combat.
_________________ “If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. Be careful, 'brethren!' Be careful, teachers!”
- Reverend King —“The Purpose of Education” from Morehouse College student newspaper, The Maroon Tiger, 1947
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Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:48 am |
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dreadi
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Tacoma, Washington Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 Posts: 8351
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mmalleck wrote: Rix86 wrote: jukk0u wrote: Well... I AM Tier One, so..... Pretty sure I'm tier ribeye these days. Pretty sure I'm pork belly... Pork bellies are up.
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Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:56 am |
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Nate
Site Supporter
Location: South Puget Sound (sounds more hoity toity than Puyallup) Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 Posts: 1351
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MorrisWR wrote: I advocate defensive hand to hand combat training before getting a gun and training to use that. There are many more scenarios and it is more likely you will have to defend yourself without a weapon. I have had several times where my hand to hand training has been used, even when I was armed. The idea of not stopping until the attacker is finished is what needs to be ingrained. Too many people are not mentally ready to attack the person with knees, elbows, kicks, etc until they have trained with someone who knows true combat. This. I went through some training that was dubbed "104% Pain" with Korean spec war....giving and receiving pain is highly educational!
_________________ Tier 9 Operator
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Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:56 am |
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WaJim
In Memoriam
Location: Tacoma Wa Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013 Posts: 16607
Real Name: George Bailey
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I remember my first fight, 5th grade Mark Zenninger, lasted two whole recesses.
That was the first time my nose was broken.....
He never said why he was pissed.
Prolly, bout this girl named Francesca.
(Ginger, long hair, alabaster skin, sat behind me)
She gave me a bracelet she made of Teaberry Gum wrappers.
(weird shit you remember, right?)
Train all you want, most people don't have what it takes to win a real fight.
The pain starts and their Flight kicks in.
_________________ "Remove one freedom per generation and soon you will have no freedom and no one would have noticed."......Carl Marx
"Let us Cross the river and sit in the shade of the trees" .....Stonewall Jackson
T. Jefferson "....the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. it is it's natural manure"
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Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:20 am |
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STED9R
Site Supporter
Location: Puyallup Joined: Thu Jul 5, 2012 Posts: 3066
Real Name: Glenn(sted)
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Rix86 wrote: A big part of that is the readiness to do ACTUAL violence. Most people are used to not ACTUALLY trying to legitimately hurt the other person involved. They pull punches, hit a time or two and back down, etc. It's not the easiest mental block to get over, either. Pretty much this, the first sentence. Violence is ugly, the part MOST people are fully incapable of doing. There's a higher percentage of people that, at no fault of their own, are not able to go into the mindset of pure ugly violence. I know plenty of hard assed, gun toting ass kicking guys that'll throw punches and roll around all day long, that just don't have the mindset to fully engage in actual ugly violence. Pulling a weapon, any weapon, doesn't mean you have the ability to fight, or have the ability to be violent. A brutal and violet brawl without weapons or rules and having the mindset of killing/stopping the other, isn't pretty, nor enjoyable or anything to brag or talk about. It isn't, not remotely or something to joke about. Going into a fight, with a mindset of you will lose your life if you don't win, and you must fully destroy the other, is a start to living another day. Learning how to cope or deal with the ugliness is a whole other level. Crossing that threshold is not easy. Using a tool (weapon) is easier and safer, but not always the right tool to use. In life or death, there is no fair fight, you fight to win by all means possible, weapons or not. But, also avoid it if all possible, by all means possible. You really do not want to want the to deal with the ugliness.
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Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:03 am |
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PTmorgan
Site Supporter
Location: Colorado Joined: Sun May 6, 2012 Posts: 1175
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TechnoWeenie wrote: Mike_P wrote: There are SO many different possibilities when it comes to using force in response to an action that it's very hard to tell how anyone would act. You'll find that it doesn't matter if the person is extremely trained or not, but a majority of the people who think they would respond in one specific way are in fact all talk.
I can tell you, having killed someone in self defense that if you are not in control, not even you can predict what you'll do, so it's just better not to talk about it and avoid looking like a dick by telling the world what you'd do and how badly you'd mess someone up. I'll add that training and experience won't guarantee success, or that shit won't go right out the window. When I was presented with a knife, and engaged, everything switched off, I had tunnel vision, and there was just an instinctual 'caveman' feeling of 'no' and 'him bad'....I felt like things just happened.. I was on autopilot...kinda like watching someone else fight from inside my own head. I wasn't scared during, but afterwards, I realized how quickly shit could have gone south had I not reacted the way I did.. It's fucking scary.. I think 'overwhelming violence' is probably the best way to describe it. Both of you guys make excellent points. This is why serious training, done repetitively & correctly, must be done if you think you are going to be able to use it in a life-or-death situation. Most of us have not been in this situation before and think that we will be cool and collected.
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Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:24 am |
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MorrisWR
Site Supporter
Location: Sammamish Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 Posts: 480
Real Name: Murray
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PTmorgan wrote: TechnoWeenie wrote: Mike_P wrote: There are SO many different possibilities when it comes to using force in response to an action that it's very hard to tell how anyone would act. You'll find that it doesn't matter if the person is extremely trained or not, but a majority of the people who think they would respond in one specific way are in fact all talk.
I can tell you, having killed someone in self defense that if you are not in control, not even you can predict what you'll do, so it's just better not to talk about it and avoid looking like a dick by telling the world what you'd do and how badly you'd mess someone up. I'll add that training and experience won't guarantee success, or that shit won't go right out the window. When I was presented with a knife, and engaged, everything switched off, I had tunnel vision, and there was just an instinctual 'caveman' feeling of 'no' and 'him bad'....I felt like things just happened.. I was on autopilot...kinda like watching someone else fight from inside my own head. I wasn't scared during, but afterwards, I realized how quickly shit could have gone south had I not reacted the way I did.. It's fucking scary.. I think 'overwhelming violence' is probably the best way to describe it. Both of you guys make excellent points. This is why serious training, done repetitively & correctly, must be done if you think you are going to be able to use it in a life-or-death situation. Most of us have not been in this situation before and think that we will be cool and collected. Great points. Serious training is the key and a hell of a lot of it. It has to be muscle memory to just switch over to your training and that takes years of daily practice.
_________________ “If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. Be careful, 'brethren!' Be careful, teachers!”
- Reverend King —“The Purpose of Education” from Morehouse College student newspaper, The Maroon Tiger, 1947
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Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:17 am |
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SporkBoy
Site Supporter
Location: Deckerville Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 Posts: 2944
Real Name: Rob
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Adrenaline dump - also heard it called psycho-chemical stress - if your training doesn't specifically include this subject you are missing out. It's not pretty.
Some call it pressure testing. Simply inducing adrenal stress is not enough - need to work on tools to manage and recover from the dump.
_________________ “The Democrats are playing you for a political chump and if you vote for them, not only are you a chump, you are a traitor to your race.”-Malcolm X
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Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:42 pm |
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quantsuff
Site Supporter
Location: central wa Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 Posts: 3554
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Willingness to train is a neccessary, but not sufficient, indicator of will to win. Humans react one of three ways when they perceive deadly danger: flee, freeze, or fight. Even if you train to fight, you cannot guarantee you will not freeze. Train your *perception*, and your ability to react, accordingly.
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Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:17 pm |
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MorrisWR
Site Supporter
Location: Sammamish Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 Posts: 480
Real Name: Murray
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SporkBoy wrote: Adrenaline dump - also heard it called psycho-chemical stress - if your training doesn't specifically include this subject you are missing out. It's not pretty.
Some call it pressure testing. Simply inducing adrenal stress is not enough - need to work on tools to manage and recover from the dump. True. You need to see how you react under stress.
_________________ “If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. Be careful, 'brethren!' Be careful, teachers!”
- Reverend King —“The Purpose of Education” from Morehouse College student newspaper, The Maroon Tiger, 1947
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Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:40 am |
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joao01
Site Supporter
Location: Midwest Joined: Thu Oct 2, 2014 Posts: 8645
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Pablo wrote: http://komonews.com/news/local/i-want-people-to-know-i-put-up-a-fight-victim-of-coffee-stand-sexual-assault-speaks-out
I know your wife wouldn't work there but. Fight! Sad thing about that is she wasn't prepared at all. I recall once I stopped at a coffee shop on my way to a gun show (which the gal asked where I was going), we ended up talking about guns and she said she had an XDS. I didn't specifically ask if she had it with her, but this dude is lucky he didn't get the one girl with a CPL and 9mm under the counter.
_________________Massivedesign wrote: I am thinking of a number somewhere between none of and your business.
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Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:55 am |
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