US Army Evaluating 9mm Subguns for PDW Usage

[GeekWithGuns]

US Army currently evaluating sub-guns for personal protection details. Interesting array of 9mm PDW/subgun weapons under evaluation including the:
- Beretta PMX
- H&K MP5 clones from Zenith and PTR
- H&K UMP9
- B&T MP9
- Sig Sauer MPX
- CZ Scorpion
- Various AR-15 SBR 9mm derivatives

Initial Article
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/06/11/breaking-us-army-to-evaluate-10-subguns-for-sub-compact-weapon-program/

New Models Recently Added for Evaluation
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/06/16/sub-compact-weapon-trials/

[AR15L]

US Army currently evaluating sub-guns for personal protection details.

I can't be the only one thinking that this is following the movie, "Blue Thunder", just a little to close.

[sreyemj]

Stupid waste of time, short M4 does everything better.

[kellybachand]

Most interesting.

[jukk0u]

Stupid waste of time, short M4 does everything better.

And logistically better. Fewer new parts to introduce/obtain - just barrels/handguards.

[Guns4Liberty]

Stupid waste of time, short M4 does everything better.

And logistically better. Fewer new parts to introduce/obtain - just barrels/handguards.

I know I'd rather have 5.56 over 9mm, but even a "short M4" has a relatively long OAL compared to the aforementioned PDWs. That's my chief complaint about my AR SBRs (7.5" 9mm and 8.5" .300 BLK)...they're still long and heavy.

[GeekWithGuns]

Stupid waste of time, short M4 does everything better.

And logistically better. Fewer new parts to introduce/obtain - just barrels/handguards.

I know I'd rather have 5.56 over 9mm, but even a "short M4" has a relatively long OAL compared to the aforementioned PDWs. That's my chief complaint about my AR SBRs (7.5" 9mm and 8.5" .300 BLK)...they're still long and heavy.

Good point about relative size and weight. My recollection from the article is this procurement effort is solely to equip personal protective details of high ranking officers and DoD officials, not for general combat usage. One of the requirements is the firearm needs to have the ability to be readily concealed.

What comes to mind is the famous scene from the assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan where Secret Service agent Robert Wanko suddenly produced an Uzi or some such similar weapon to cover the scene.

[AR15L]

MP5

[metrotps]

" Good point about relative size and weight. My recollection from the article is this procurement effort is solely to equip personal protective details of high ranking officers and DoD officials, not for general combat usage. One of the requirements is the firearm needs to have the ability to be readily concealed.
What comes to mind is the famous scene from the assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan where Secret Service agent Robert Wanko suddenly produced an Uzi or some such similar weapon to cover the scene." Def an UZI IMHO. What they really need is this: https://kriss-usa.com/pistols/special-d ... -sdp-black

[hkcavalier]

Yeah doesn't sound like a PDW in the traditional sense i.e. something to arm truck drivers and cooks vs. the M4. It's going to be tough to get much smaller and lighter than an M4/M4A1 and have something that's effective on the modern battlefield. Well...something the DoD will actually buy. I'm a huge fan of the 6.5CBJ but, after nearly 20 years of hanging around, seems to be DOA. I don't even like 5.56 from a 14.5" barrel, less and you're really getting into the inefficient range for the round. Tons of flash and noise for not a lot of downrange punch.

I know the MP5K was THE choice for this sort of work back in the '90s. Had enough of those guys open up their bags and show me. They were the only dudes permitted to keep their weapons loaded (besides us, the installation security detail) but were required to show us what they were toting around. They were not cocky about that fact and, though we never really had any serious trouble, we were glad to have them around. I'll take a 40 year old retired SF guy with an MP5K over 19 year old PFC Schmuckatelli with an A2 or M4 more concerned with Jody back home than "acquire, press, assess."

[quantsuff]

...my AR SBRs ...they're still long and heavy.

and hella loud, with huge, bright, incendiary muzzle flash...

[mmalleck]

Go bullpup like a Tavor - small package, yet still have the barrel length to reach out an touch someone.

I suppose the FN P90 is just too old - good enough for the secret service. It's weight and 50 round mags would be a plus.

[Guns4Liberty]

...my AR SBRs ...they're still long and heavy.

and hella loud, with huge, bright, incendiary muzzle flash...

Yeah, that too. 5.56 is kind of obnoxious from a short barrel...fun, but obnoxious.

The B&T MP9-N would get my vote. Light, compact, and well-built. Put a tri-lug mount on it and keep a small can in your pocket...that's all you'd need.

[usrifle]

Scorpion with Folder gets my Vote. Light and handy with almost no recoil.
Perfect Compact PDW.

[ilwil]

As was said before, the MP5 was the main dignitary protection sub gun in the 90s. I can't imagine that it is not still. I did that stuff for the Army, and we had MP5s and also Uzis. I know, because I lugged one around in a briefcase during Desert Storm and the aftermath. I have a lot of affection for the Uzi, though it is a chunk along with three 30 round mags.