Cop shoots LAC breaking up fight in PDX...

[TechnoWeenie]

So.....

Fight breaks out.... Campus cops just sit there and don't do shit...

Man tries to intervene to stop the fight...

In the tussle, his gun comes out of his holster...

PSU campus cops shoots the guy 10+ times.

It's all on video.


https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/ ... -569090275

Witness Keyaira Smith told KGW that a fight had broken out outside the bar and campus officers at first stood by and watched.

The man who died tried to intervene and de-escalate the fight, which involved a friend of his. While doing this, a gun holstered on his hip fell out. He went to pick it up and shots rang out, Smith said.


(....)

"The guy who got shot was trying to deescalate the situation the whole time," said witness Patrick Dean. "He was feeling pressed by a bunch of people. He told them I have a gun I’m a licensed carrier."

Both 'cops' have been on the dep't less than 2 years, and PSU only recently decided to arm their officers...and this is their first shooting..

Good job, assholes......

' hey, we're not going to do our jobs, but when someone steps in to do our job for us, we'll just shoot them.'


The victim had a concealed carry permit, was a navy veteran, and worked for the USPS.

PSU officials are already preparing to defend the university against a lawsuit. Leaders convened a closed-to-the-public executive session Friday afternoon to discuss potential litigation

No doubt they'll find they did nothing wrong, then when sued, claim qualified immunity and say 'we investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong'.

[Mr. Q]

so, they shouted at him to drop the gun several times before opening fire. if he had dropped the gun, would they have fired?
because they shouted that several times as seen on the video, they will call this a good shoot.

[TechnoWeenie]

so, they shouted at him to drop the gun several times before opening fire. if he had dropped the gun, would they have fired?
because they shouted that several times as seen on the video, they will call this a good shoot.

Yup. Just like beating a guy in handcuffs while yelling 'stop resisting'..

There was about a second between verbal commands and shooting, nowhere near enough time to react....That's ASSUMING he heard them....

How many times has someone had to say your name a couple times, before you realize someone is trying to get your attention?

Crowded street, gun fell out, focusing on it and going to pick it up...Trying to figure out in one second what the yelling is and if it's even directed towards you. Hell, I 'know' I'm a good guy, if I heard that I'd assume someone pulled out a gun, and I'd be trying to find out who, not realizing it's me they're talking about..

An armed man isn't a threat solely because he's armed, USSC Florida Vs. J.L. Even under Terry Vs. Ohio the courts ruled that in order to do a pat down for weapons there must be an articulation that they're both armed AND dangerous.. Merely being armed doesn't satisfy that requirement.

Maybe if they got off their lazy asses and stepped in at the beginning the guy wouldn't have had to intervene.

Yeah, the guy had a shitty holster, but that shouldn't be a death sentence from a fucking idiot...

This just made up my mind. I'm not helping anyone anymore. Let the cop getting his ass beat by a suspect die. I'm not gonna risk getting shot by some keystone cop because 'OMGz, HE GOT A GUN!'... Then have some bullshit 'investigation' clear the trigger happy fucknut because 'Department policy'...

I don't know how many times I can say this..

FUCK DEPARTMENT POLICY..... Dep't policy is NOT law...

Was he presenting a threat? No? Then why'd you fucking shoot?

We need to end qualified immunity.

If I had shot the guy I'd be going to jail, but these yahoos get a paid vacation, and no doubt a fucking ticker tape parade with a banner that reads 'you made it home tonight'..

You know shit is fucked up when anti-gun leftists are saying the guy was trying to help, and shouldn't have been shot..


I'd bet we'd have a different storyline if the guy was an off duty cop.... about some accidental tragedy and boo hoo....

[TechnoWeenie]

United States v. Nathaniel Black
Sibron v. New York
Northrup v. City of Toledo
State v. Bishop
State v. Serna
State v. Vandenberg

This isn't rocket surgery, it's settled law....

But hey, if all that's required to shoot someone these days is retrieving a dropped pistol...and a cop saying he's a pansy ass bitch and being scared for his life...

Tumwater apparently knows how to handle a man that was not only armed, but had just shot someone...

[Scvette]

United States v. Nathaniel Black
Sibron v. New York
Northrup v. City of Toledo
State v. Bishop
State v. Serna
State v. Vandenberg

This isn't rocket surgery, it's settled law....

But hey, if all that's required to shoot someone these days is retrieving a dropped pistol...and a cop saying he's a pansy ass bitch and being scared for his life...

Tumwater apparently knows how to handle a man that was not only armed, but had just shot someone...

Can you be anymore anti cop? I don't think so,were you there? Did you see if the guy started to point it at the officers? No. All you post is anti BS. I'm not sure if you found a job yet,if not Seattle police is hiring....go live there life's,make it better as you seem to be a know it all in about every subject that is brought up.

[TechnoWeenie]

United States v. Nathaniel Black
Sibron v. New York
Northrup v. City of Toledo
State v. Bishop
State v. Serna
State v. Vandenberg

This isn't rocket surgery, it's settled law....

But hey, if all that's required to shoot someone these days is retrieving a dropped pistol...and a cop saying he's a pansy ass bitch and being scared for his life...

Tumwater apparently knows how to handle a man that was not only armed, but had just shot someone...

Can you be anymore anti cop?

Considering I'm not anti-cop, I could be 100% more anti-cop.

Did you see if the guy started to point it at the officers? No. All you post is anti BS.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. I guess suing a doctor for cutting off the wrong leg is 'anti-doctor' eh? Maybe if I'm pissed at the mailman for delivering my package to the wrong address makes me 'anti-mailman'...

I'm not sure if you found a job yet,if not Seattle police is hiring....go live there life's,make it better as you seem to be a know it all in about every subject that is brought up.

Funny.

I've had a guy threatening to shoot me, while reaching to his glovebox claiming he had a gun in there, and I managed not to kill anyone....

You gonna give me the 'but, but, their job is soooooo hard' and 'omgz splitz secundz!' spiel? Save your time; don't.

I highlighted and made larger the part where I pointed out the cops doing the right thing..Maybe that'll help you.

'anti-cop'... Yeah, just complaining about a good guy getting shot... See above about the whole 'anti' thing.

Funny, no one ever disputes my citations or provides their own...It's always 'omg you're anti-cop how dare you question the anointed ones? Blessed be the shieldholders that kick down the wrong door and shoot the family dog cowering in the corner'

Like the leftists calling someone racist when they have no counterargument.... It gets old.

Cool, call me a cop hater all you want... Tell me how/why you think the officers' actions were appropriate, and we can have a discussion..... annndddd....GO!

[leadcounsel]

Looks like a very hard situation for all parties involved, with lots of split second life/death decisions.

* If there's a confrontation, do you intervene as a bystander? And is that equation different if you are armed? I'd say that you probably should not, knowing that you "could" lose your firearm in a tussle.

* If you drop the gun, you're compelled to recover it. But in holding a gun, now you're escalating the altercation to lethal force by brandishing a gun. Hard situation.

* Cops see you with a gun, and YOU are the threat. This is all occurring in an instant by the way.

Dunno how this plays out, but the entire event unfolded in what appears to be 5-15 seconds, and from the point of the cops seeing the gun, yelling to drop the gun, and firing, is probably 2 seconds.

The lessons here I think are:

* Quality retention holster is necessary
* Don't get into physical scuffles if you are a armed citizen
* Be aware that when you are holding a gun, in public, YOU are the lethal threat that cops will zero in on.
* This point goes for LAC's who intervene in self defense of others - you come upon a robbery or assault and intervene with a gun, you might be wrongly targeted as the assailant.
* Police need to be aware there are possibly lawfully armed non-threats in the crowd.

[TechnoWeenie]

Looks like a very hard situation for all parties involved, with lots of split second life/death decisions.

* If there's a confrontation, do you intervene as a bystander? And is that equation different if you are armed? I'd say that you probably should not, knowing that you "could" lose your firearm in a tussle.

* If you drop the gun, you're compelled to recover it. But in holding a gun, now you're escalating the altercation to lethal force by brandishing a gun. Hard situation.

* Cops see you with a gun, and YOU are the threat. This is all occurring in an instant by the way.

Dunno how this plays out, but the entire event unfolded in what appears to be 5-15 seconds, and from the point of the cops seeing the gun, yelling to drop the gun, and firing, is probably 2 seconds.

The lessons here I think are:

* Quality retention holster is necessary
* Don't get into physical scuffles if you are a armed citizen
* Be aware that when you are holding a gun, in public, YOU are the lethal threat that cops will zero in on.
* This point goes for LAC's who intervene in self defense of others - you come upon a robbery or assault and intervene with a gun, you might be wrongly targeted as the assailant.
* Police need to be aware there are possibly lawfully armed non-threats in the crowd.

Thank you.

I think you made an honest/accurate assessment from both sides of the coin.

Dude needed a better holster.
Cops need better trigger control and threat assessment.

This is a college police department, in Portland... I hesitate to guess what 'experience' involving lethal force these officers had, in 2 years...of handling drunk hippies...

[Scvette]

United States v. Nathaniel Black
Sibron v. New York
Northrup v. City of Toledo
State v. Bishop
State v. Serna
State v. Vandenberg

This isn't rocket surgery, it's settled law....

But hey, if all that's required to shoot someone these days is retrieving a dropped pistol...and a cop saying he's a pansy ass bitch and being scared for his life...

Tumwater apparently knows how to handle a man that was not only armed, but had just shot someone...

Can you be anymore anti cop?

Considering I'm not anti-cop, I could be 100% more anti-cop.

Did you see if the guy started to point it at the officers? No. All you post is anti BS.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. I guess suing a doctor for cutting off the wrong leg is 'anti-doctor' eh? Maybe if I'm pissed at the mailman for delivering my package to the wrong address makes me 'anti-mailman'...

I'm not sure if you found a job yet,if not Seattle police is hiring....go live there life's,make it better as you seem to be a know it all in about every subject that is brought up.

Funny.

I've had a guy threatening to shoot me, while reaching to his glovebox claiming he had a gun in there, and I managed not to kill anyone....

You gonna give me the 'but, but, their job is soooooo hard' and 'omgz splitz secundz!' spiel? Save your time; don't.

I highlighted and made larger the part where I pointed out the cops doing the right thing..Maybe that'll help you.

'anti-cop'... Yeah, just complaining about a good guy getting shot... See above about the whole 'anti' thing.

Funny, no one ever disputes my citations or provides their own...It's always 'omg you're anti-cop how dare you question the anointed ones? Blessed be the shieldholders that kick down the wrong door and shoot the family dog cowering in the corner'

Like the leftists calling someone racist when they have no counterargument.... It gets old.

Cool, call me a cop hater all you want... Tell me how/why you think the officers' actions were appropriate, and we can have a discussion..... annndddd....GO!

You'd never make it past the 1st interview with a law enforcement agency,once they saw you're anti cop BS.

[TechnoWeenie]

United States v. Nathaniel Black
Sibron v. New York
Northrup v. City of Toledo
State v. Bishop
State v. Serna
State v. Vandenberg

This isn't rocket surgery, it's settled law....

But hey, if all that's required to shoot someone these days is retrieving a dropped pistol...and a cop saying he's a pansy ass bitch and being scared for his life...

Tumwater apparently knows how to handle a man that was not only armed, but had just shot someone...

Can you be anymore anti cop?

Considering I'm not anti-cop, I could be 100% more anti-cop.

Did you see if the guy started to point it at the officers? No. All you post is anti BS.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. I guess suing a doctor for cutting off the wrong leg is 'anti-doctor' eh? Maybe if I'm pissed at the mailman for delivering my package to the wrong address makes me 'anti-mailman'...

I'm not sure if you found a job yet,if not Seattle police is hiring....go live there life's,make it better as you seem to be a know it all in about every subject that is brought up.

Funny.

I've had a guy threatening to shoot me, while reaching to his glovebox claiming he had a gun in there, and I managed not to kill anyone....

You gonna give me the 'but, but, their job is soooooo hard' and 'omgz splitz secundz!' spiel? Save your time; don't.

I highlighted and made larger the part where I pointed out the cops doing the right thing..Maybe that'll help you.

'anti-cop'... Yeah, just complaining about a good guy getting shot... See above about the whole 'anti' thing.

Funny, no one ever disputes my citations or provides their own...It's always 'omg you're anti-cop how dare you question the anointed ones? Blessed be the shieldholders that kick down the wrong door and shoot the family dog cowering in the corner'

Like the leftists calling someone racist when they have no counterargument.... It gets old.

Cool, call me a cop hater all you want... Tell me how/why you think the officers' actions were appropriate, and we can have a discussion..... annndddd....GO!

You'd never make it past the 1st interview with a law enforcement agency,once they saw you're anti cop BS.

Still with the personal attacks.

Stop attacking me and attack my argument.

Go ahead, say a man with a gun is per se a threat, I double dog dare you...

[MadPick]

LAC? C'mon man, let's spell some shit out here and spare us the obscure acronyms. I'm guessing Legally Armed Citizen?

Still with the personal attacks.

Stop attacking me and attack my argument.

Absolutely correct. Some of you need a refresher of #1, especially the part about ad hominem attacks:
WaGuns Members Code of Conduct

Looks like a very hard situation for all parties involved, with lots of split second life/death decisions.

* If there's a confrontation, do you intervene as a bystander? And is that equation different if you are armed? I'd say that you probably should not, knowing that you "could" lose your firearm in a tussle.

* If you drop the gun, you're compelled to recover it. But in holding a gun, now you're escalating the altercation to lethal force by brandishing a gun. Hard situation.

* Cops see you with a gun, and YOU are the threat. This is all occurring in an instant by the way.

Dunno how this plays out, but the entire event unfolded in what appears to be 5-15 seconds, and from the point of the cops seeing the gun, yelling to drop the gun, and firing, is probably 2 seconds.

The lessons here I think are:

* Quality retention holster is necessary
* Don't get into physical scuffles if you are a armed citizen
* Be aware that when you are holding a gun, in public, YOU are the lethal threat that cops will zero in on.
* This point goes for LAC's who intervene in self defense of others - you come upon a robbery or assault and intervene with a gun, you might be wrongly targeted as the assailant.
* Police need to be aware there are possibly lawfully armed non-threats in the crowd.

Well said, especially your list of "lessons." I think that's a good summary.

"Don't get into physical scuffles if you are an armed citizen" is a good one for us all to remember. In this case the guy was breaking up a fight, but let's say you're out in public and get into it with someone else in some bullshit macho-man scenario. If you're carrying a gun, you need to just walk away. If you get into a fistfight, then there's just too much chance of the other guy finding out that you're armed and reacting in a bad way, or your gun falling out, or you deciding to pull the gun if your ass starts getting beat.

Carrying a gun? Walk away from that shit.

[RockHopper]

LAC? C'mon man, let's spell some shit out here and spare us the obscure acronyms. I'm guessing Legally Armed Citizen?

Still with the personal attacks.

Stop attacking me and attack my argument.

Absolutely correct. Some of you need a refresher of #1, especially the part about ad hominem attacks:
WaGuns Members Code of Conduct

Looks like a very hard situation for all parties involved, with lots of split second life/death decisions.

* If there's a confrontation, do you intervene as a bystander? And is that equation different if you are armed? I'd say that you probably should not, knowing that you "could" lose your firearm in a tussle.

* If you drop the gun, you're compelled to recover it. But in holding a gun, now you're escalating the altercation to lethal force by brandishing a gun. Hard situation.

* Cops see you with a gun, and YOU are the threat. This is all occurring in an instant by the way.

Dunno how this plays out, but the entire event unfolded in what appears to be 5-15 seconds, and from the point of the cops seeing the gun, yelling to drop the gun, and firing, is probably 2 seconds.

The lessons here I think are:

* Quality retention holster is necessary
* Don't get into physical scuffles if you are a armed citizen
* Be aware that when you are holding a gun, in public, YOU are the lethal threat that cops will zero in on.
* This point goes for LAC's who intervene in self defense of others - you come upon a robbery or assault and intervene with a gun, you might be wrongly targeted as the assailant.
* Police need to be aware there are possibly lawfully armed non-threats in the crowd.

Well said, especially your list of "lessons." I think that's a good summary.

"Don't get into physical scuffles if you are an armed citizen" is a good one for us all to remember. In this case the guy was breaking up a fight, but let's say you're out in public and get into it with someone else in some bullshit macho-man scenario. If you're carrying a gun, you need to just walk away. If you get into a fistfight, then there's just too much chance of the other guy finding out that you're armed and reacting in a bad way, or your gun falling out, or you deciding to pull the gun if your ass starts getting beat.

Carrying a gun? Walk away from that shit.

+10000000000

[usrifle]

All i can say is the Campus Cops were there when the whole thing was unfolding and had to witness what happened when the guy attempted to "break it up" and dropped his Gun.
I highly doubt the guy had time to even respond to the Commands before he was shot too. How many rounds did the Campus Cop fire anyway? That was overkill and negligent in my opinion.

Other than that, i agree wholeheartedly with what Steve said.

Just walk away.

[TechnoWeenie]

LAC? C'mon man, let's spell some shit out here and spare us the obscure acronyms. I'm guessing Legally Armed Citizen?

Law Abiding Citizen aka a good guy. Contrasted with methheads, 8x convicted felon, serial armed robber, etc.

Sorry, I thought that was pretty common vernacular.

Limited space in the title bar means using acronyms.

[leadcounsel]

LAC? C'mon man, let's spell some shit out here and spare us the obscure acronyms. I'm guessing Legally Armed Citizen?

Law Abiding Citizen aka a good guy. Contrasted with methheads, 8x convicted felon, serial armed robber, etc.

Sorry, I thought that was pretty common vernacular.

Limited space in the title bar means using acronyms.

I actually thought it meant "Lawfully Armed Citizen."

Regardless, it's debatable that when he picked up his gun the reasonably objective observer might view him as the "unlawfully armed threat" and react accordingly.

Let's say you are walking in the city and hear shouting and a scuffle around the corner. You turn the corner, and see several people in a scuffle, and a man holding a gun. GO.

The reality is, the man with the gun can be perceived as the primary threat, and one can argue that the gun escalates a fight to lethal force (even if not intended, such as this example). This is why you have to be very very conscious of carrying a gun, fights, intervening, and even open carry. Right or wrong, you can be seen as the threat and someone might shoot you. Your moral high ground is irrelevant if you are dead and your family grieving.