TechnoWeenie wrote:MadPick wrote:LAC? C'mon man, let's spell some shit out here and spare us the obscure acronyms. I'm guessing Legally Armed Citizen?
Law Abiding Citizen aka a good guy. Contrasted with methheads, 8x convicted felon, serial armed robber, etc.
Sorry, I thought that was pretty common vernacular.
Limited space in the title bar means using acronyms.
When I read what Steve said, the first thing that I thought of was limited title bar space.
But that was instantly followed by the thought that once you started writing the post, instead of just continuing using the acronym... The first time, you should have spelled it out. Then resumed the acronym from then on. To give the rest of us with thicker heads, a clue, and a fighting chance to figure out what the heck LAC meant...
leadcounsel wrote:Regardless, it's debatable that when he picked up his gun the reasonably objective observer might view him as the "unlawfully armed threat" and react accordingly.
Let's say you are walking in the city and hear shouting and a scuffle around the corner. You turn the corner, and see several people in a scuffle, and a man holding a gun. GO.
The reality is, the man with the gun can be perceived as the primary threat, and one can argue that the gun escalates a fight to lethal force (even if not intended, such as this example). This is why you have to be very very conscious of carrying a gun, fights, intervening, and even open carry. Right or wrong, you can be seen as the threat and someone might shoot you. Your moral high ground is irrelevant if you are dead and your family grieving.
True.
But personally I think it is less cloudy than that.
The "officers" were standing there the entire time. They saw who was fighting. They saw the dropped gun. They knew the guy had not had the gun out, threatening anyone.
They apparently instantly assumed he had probably drawn the weapon, and intended to use it, but had dropped it.
Ok, I can't argue with that assumption. But in light of the fact that the guy had not been waving the gun around and/or threatening anyone with it, they took lethal action WAY too quickly.
My assumption has to be, they were young, Inexperienced. Stuck on a college campus. Bored. Wanting to be 'taking a bite out of REAL crime, not just dealing with drunk/high millennials. Angry at everyone for all the above. And just champing at the bit for a chance to shoot someone.
Powderman wrote:OK...
I hear what the shouted commands were...I hear that they were repeated more than once.
Barring anything else, it seems like the guy dropped his pistol. (Question...why was he trying to intervene? Was he related to someone there? Had he been attacked?)
He dropped the pistol. He apparently picked up.
Folks...
When an officer tells you to DROP THE WEAPON, don't argue. Don't protest. LAY THE WEAPON DOWN.
If you lose control of it, and LE is nearby, put your foot on it and GET YOUR HANDS UP.
DON'T continue to hold the firearm.
DON"T start turning with it in your hand.
LEAVE IT ALONE.
The grand jury will decide if the officer's actions were reasonable. Barring actual video of the shooting itself, no one else can say.
Bad news, all around.
And THAT... That right there...
Was going to be exactly what I was going to suggest.
Cops are already there. In that situation, that is EXACTLY what I would have done.
Well, in that situation, I would not have been physically involved and this probably wouldn't have happened. But you know what I mean.
In that situation, I would have been well aware that the cops were right there. And I would have instantly put my foot on it so no one else could pick it up. Then drawn the cops' attention to the fact that I had dropped it.
I would not even have ATTEMPTED to pick it up.
I know for a fact this is what I would have done... Because I have already been in a somewhat similar situation. (Didn't drop it, but it became unconcealed. And I was in the vicinity of 'trouble'. And this was back when, "Concealed means concealed".) And as aware as I was about all the rest of the surrounding 'danger'... I was just as aware, if not more so, of the presence of the cops, and how they would react. (I drew the attention of the nearest cop. Kept my hands well away from it. And let him take it from the holster.
In a bad situation, I see the cop as an ally. Albeit one who doesn't know me, doesn't know my background, and might well just kill me if I seem the tiniest bit a 'threat'. LOL It is in my interest to make sure they KNOW I am in no way a threat, and will help them if I can.
I would also expect in that situation, (The OP.), for the cops to pick it up themselves, and to confiscate it. I would hate it, but would have to accept that I might lose the weapon entirely, because of my own stupidity. (Not likely campus cops would EVER give the weapon back.)
I didn't lose my weapon. They gave it back almost immediately, without a word. But they DID take my driver's license and CPL, to verify. (Had it never become unconcealed, I never would have said anything.)
