LAPD kills ANOTHER innocent bystander/hostage...

[TechnoWeenie]

LAPD releases video of Van Nuys standoff in which officers fatally shot a hostage

Outside a homeless outreach center in Van Nuys on June 16, Guillermo Perez grabbed a woman and put a knife to her neck.

Three police officers shot at Perez, 32, killing him — and also the woman.

No clear shot, takes it anyway.... looks like they hit her in the head because she just drops and doesn't move after that...

[Guns4Liberty]

I just watched the video. What a clusterfuck. I can understand why officers fired, but when you watch the video it doesn't seem like anyone but the lone officer nearest the guy had a clear enough shot of him to fire. The other officers firing did NOT have a clear shot, IMO. And something had to be wrong with that woman...why the hell would you just stand there in the middle of an armed confrontation between officers and a crazy with a knife? Don't get me wrong - I'm not victim-blaming at all - but you do have to wonder why the hell she just stood there.

[AR15L]

You can hear the one officer saying over and over, "bean bag up" but I don't think he ever fired it. Plenty of clear shots, too.

edit: I watched it a few more times and did see him use the bean bag shotgun.

Last edited by AR15L on Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[KeystoneCowboy]

Fake video. They never release video of cops doing wrong.

[leadcounsel]

LAPD releases video of Van Nuys standoff in which officers fatally shot a hostage

Outside a homeless outreach center in Van Nuys on June 16, Guillermo Perez grabbed a woman and put a knife to her neck.

Three police officers shot at Perez, 32, killing him — and also the woman.

No clear shot, takes it anyway.... looks like they hit her in the head because she just drops and doesn't move after that...

Yet another in the tiresome implied slur against LEOs when no alternatives were offered (i.e. this isn't a news repository site, so is there a dialogue or suggestion, or just constant LEO slander?).

Here's what I see as adding to the actual dialogue, and I'll defend the LEOs actions to some extent.

Information relayed, what was likely known at the time, and/or observed:
* Big man with knife
* Stabbed (killed?) his girlfriend already
* Refused VERY PATIENT LEO commands for several moments to drop the deadly weapon (big knife) he was holding. I heard commands from several officers probably a dozen times to "drop the knife." 2-3+ officers armed with guns, yelling commands to "drop the knife."

A training point, here, is to yell to all bystanders to clear away. It should have been OBVIOUS to folks standing around, to get out of the area. But the cops should have yelled at them to clear away.

Here's where the cops are in a difficult situation. It appears they tried the bean bag shotgun, but it was ineffective. But at what point to do you put down the armed non-compliant man who is also a suspect in an aggravated assault or murder? How patient must LEOs be? I applaud their patience, but here's an example where it did result in an innocent bystander death.

So next, he takes a hostage and begins to cut her throat (or make sawing motions on her throat). I did see blood, not sure of the origin, on his upper arm.

At that point, the woman is clearly either being killed or in imminent threat of death and marksmanship is critical. But they are clearly attempting the LEAST WORST outcome and trying to save her. They had handguns, at the range was difficult.

This is tragic, but only avoidable if either they yelled at the innocents to move away (this is a best practice I'd suggest) or shot him sooner (which the anti-LEOs would be complaining about) or used far better marksmanship. I can see why they might have been reluctant to shoot, given the urban backdrop and risk to innocents.

By the way, it's hard to tell due to video angles/edits, but it appears this unfolded in maybe 30 seconds or a minute.

So, close your eyes and imagine a crazy, violent, chaotic, unpredictable situation unfolding right now, with almost no warning, involving 6 people (5 of who are armed) right where you are. You have to resolve it successfully in 30 seconds. GO.

Tough situation here. I can see some room for LEO improvement (yelling to civilians to GTFA), but civilians really should be more self-aware and do this naturally. I can see the need for more marksmanship training, but these were pistols in a high stress MUST ACT RIGHT NOW TO SAVE THIS WOMAN situation. Sadly it failed.

[leadcounsel]

You can hear the one officer saying over and over, "bean bag up" but I don't think he ever fired it. Plenty of clear shots, too.

He did fire it. You can hear and see the shotgun being discharged, at least once, by at least one officer. I think it's possible more were shot.

The man had a steel chair, which might have been used as a makeshift effective shield.

In any event, it appears it was ineffective or put him in a rage to take the hostage.

[AR15L]

You can hear the one officer saying over and over, "bean bag up" but I don't think he ever fired it. Plenty of clear shots, too.

He did fire it. You can hear and see the shotgun being discharged, at least once, by at least one officer. I think it's possible more were shot.

The man had a steel chair, which might have been used as a makeshift effective shield.

In any event, it appears it was ineffective or put him in a rage to take the hostage.

Yeah, I went back and edited my post after watching the empties fly out of the shotgun.

[L_O_G]

Damn what a cluster fuck. You can see the officer with the green (Bean bag?) fired atleast once before the others fired. This Live Leak link is saying she was "stabbed" to death and not shot.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=kH1I8_1533049578

[AR15L]

$100 says she died from gunshot.

[PW45]

what the hell are you doing reading the LA times anyways?

[TechnoWeenie]

LAPD releases video of Van Nuys standoff in which officers fatally shot a hostage

Outside a homeless outreach center in Van Nuys on June 16, Guillermo Perez grabbed a woman and put a knife to her neck.

Three police officers shot at Perez, 32, killing him — and also the woman.

No clear shot, takes it anyway.... looks like they hit her in the head because she just drops and doesn't move after that...

Yet another in the tiresome implied slur against LEOs when no alternatives were offered (i.e. this isn't a news repository site, so is there a dialogue or suggestion, or just constant LEO slander?)

'Implied slur'? Are you nucking futs?

THEY KILLED AN INNOCENT WOMAN, and you have the balls to sit here and say it's an 'implied slur'?

1. I didn't imply anything.
2. Their actions speak for themselves, they're a bunch of fucknuts.

EVERY active shooting training session I've attended, INCLUDING those hosted by LE agencies at LE facilities, emphasizes KNOWING YOUR TARGET AND WHAT'S BEYOND IT, and more specifically, that you may have to hold your fire and reposition to make sure you have a clean shot with a good backdrop and avoid a crossfire situation.

They SHOT AND KILLED AN INNOCENT WOMAN, and you have the balls to say I'm being too hard on them and being anti-cop?

Had she ran and they shot you'd say she put herself in the line of fire...So, either way, not the cops fault, right?



So, you know what I'd do?

Follow my training, reposition for a better shot....Close distance if need be for a better shot, point blank if required.



I guess that's too much to ask of LAPD? Because this is the 2nd innocent person they've killed in less than 2 months..

But I'm the problem for calling them out on it...

Last edited by TechnoWeenie on Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[TechnoWeenie]

what the hell are you doing reading the LA times anyways?

FaceSpace, lots of fun trolling all the libtards..

[Unicorn]

I just watched the video. What a clusterfuck. I can understand why officers fired, but when you watch the video it doesn't seem like anyone but the lone officer nearest the guy had a clear enough shot of him to fire. The other officers firing did NOT have a clear shot, IMO. And something had to be wrong with that woman...why the hell would you just stand there in the middle of an armed confrontation between officers and a crazy with a knife? Don't get me wrong - I'm not victim-blaming at all - but you do have to wonder why the hell she just stood there.

When people panic they sometimes do some crazy things. Or just freeze.

[Powderman]

So, you know what I'd do?

Follow my training, reposition for a better shot....Close distance if need be for a better shot, point blank if required.

OK, that's it. Enough.

First of all, I'm calling you out, TW.

I just looked at the video. Now, tell me, what kind of training have you had? What kind of specialty did YOU get certified in? Are you a law enforcement trainer?

Because with this statement, you just proved that you are as full of shit as a used colostomy bag.

The officers responded with restraint. They tried to get the guy to drop the knife. He escalated.

He went over and took that woman hostage. Did you see the way he was holding that knife? DID YOU?

The officers had NO MORE TIME. THERE WERE ZERO OPTIONS AT THAT POINT. NONE. PERIOD. FULL STOP.

You say that you would have repositioned. Describe HOW you would have done it. THERE WAS NO TIME TO REPOSITION, CALL IN A NEGOTIATOR, TALK TO THE SUSPECT---NONE OF THAT!!!

From what it looked like--it wasn't too clear at that point--but it looked like he had ALREADY started sawing through her throat, Al Qaida style.

You know what? I wear my big boy pants every day. I have pretty thick skin. However, YOU seem determined to find something, ANYTHING wrong with law enforcement. I don't know why, and I don't know what triggered you in this direction. And to tell the truth, I'm past the point of caring about it.

So here it is, black and white---either put on the uniform and see what it's like in our shoes, or shut the fuck up.

[jukk0u]

I think she used a walker and wasn't able to run clear of the freak-o and was caught in the middle.

Tragic situation.