WaGuns.org

Powderman wrote:

So, you know what I'd do?

Follow my training, reposition for a better shot....Close distance if need be for a better shot, point blank if required.

OK, that's it. Enough.

First of all, I'm calling you out, TW.

I just looked at the video. Now, tell me, what kind of training have you had? What kind of specialty did YOU get certified in? Are you a law enforcement trainer?

Because with this statement, you just proved that you are as full of shit as a used colostomy bag.

The officers responded with restraint. They tried to get the guy to drop the knife. He escalated.

He went over and took that woman hostage. Did you see the way he was holding that knife? DID YOU?

The officers had NO MORE TIME. THERE WERE ZERO OPTIONS AT THAT POINT. NONE. PERIOD. FULL STOP.

You say that you would have repositioned. Describe HOW you would have done it. THERE WAS NO TIME TO REPOSITION, CALL IN A NEGOTIATOR, TALK TO THE SUSPECT---NONE OF THAT!!!

From what it looked like--it wasn't too clear at that point--but it looked like he had ALREADY started sawing through her throat, Al Qaida style.

You know what? I wear my big boy pants every day. I have pretty thick skin. However, YOU seem determined to find something, ANYTHING wrong with law enforcement. I don't know why, and I don't know what triggered you in this direction. And to tell the truth, I'm past the point of caring about it.

So here it is, black and white---either put on the uniform and see what it's like in our shoes, or shut the fuck up.

Powderman wrote:

So, you know what I'd do?

Follow my training, reposition for a better shot....Close distance if need be for a better shot, point blank if required.

OK, that's it. Enough.

First of all, I'm calling you out, TW.

I just looked at the video. Now, tell me, what kind of training have you had? What kind of specialty did YOU get certified in? Are you a law enforcement trainer?

Because with this statement, you just proved that you are as full of shit as a used colostomy bag.

The officers responded with restraint. They tried to get the guy to drop the knife. He escalated.

He went over and took that woman hostage. Did you see the way he was holding that knife? DID YOU?

The officers had NO MORE TIME. THERE WERE ZERO OPTIONS AT THAT POINT. NONE. PERIOD. FULL STOP.

You say that you would have repositioned. Describe HOW you would have done it. THERE WAS NO TIME TO REPOSITION, CALL IN A NEGOTIATOR, TALK TO THE SUSPECT---NONE OF THAT!!!

From what it looked like--it wasn't too clear at that point--but it looked like he had ALREADY started sawing through her throat, Al Qaida style.

You know what? I wear my big boy pants every day. I have pretty thick skin. However, YOU seem determined to find something, ANYTHING wrong with law enforcement. I don't know why, and I don't know what triggered you in this direction. And to tell the truth, I'm past the point of caring about it.

So here it is, black and white---either put on the uniform and see what it's like in our shoes, or shut the fuck up.

jukk0u wrote:I think she used a walker and wasn't able to run clear of the freak-o and was caught in the middle.

Powderman wrote:So here it is, black and white---either put on the uniform and see what it's like in our shoes, or shut the fuck up.

Alpine wrote:It's not clear if the guy started slitting her throat or not. If he had already started then the cops HAD to shoot, they had no choice.

Alpine wrote:It's not clear if the guy started slitting her throat or not. If he had already started then the cops HAD to shoot, they had no choice.

TechnoWeenie wrote:

leadcounsel wrote:

TechnoWeenie wrote:LAPD releases video of Van Nuys standoff in which officers fatally shot a hostage

Outside a homeless outreach center in Van Nuys on June 16, Guillermo Perez grabbed a woman and put a knife to her neck.

Three police officers shot at Perez, 32, killing him — and also the woman.

No clear shot, takes it anyway.... looks like they hit her in the head because she just drops and doesn't move after that...

Yet another in the tiresome implied slur against LEOs when no alternatives were offered (i.e. this isn't a news repository site, so is there a dialogue or suggestion, or just constant LEO slander?)

'Implied slur'? Are you nucking futs?

THEY KILLED AN INNOCENT WOMAN, and you have the balls to sit here and say it's an 'implied slur'?

1. I didn't imply anything.
2. Their actions speak for themselves, they're a bunch of fucknuts.

EVERY active shooting training session I've attended, INCLUDING those hosted by LE agencies at LE facilities, emphasizes KNOWING YOUR TARGET AND WHAT'S BEYOND IT, and more specifically, that you may have to hold your fire and reposition to make sure you have a clean shot with a good backdrop and avoid a crossfire situation.

They SHOT AND KILLED AN INNOCENT WOMAN, and you have the balls to say I'm being too hard on them and being anti-cop?

Had she ran and they shot you'd say she put herself in the line of fire...So, either way, not the cops fault, right?



So, you know what I'd do?

Follow my training, reposition for a better shot....Close distance if need be for a better shot, point blank if required.



I guess that's too much to ask of LAPD? Because this is the 2nd innocent person they've killed in less than 2 months..

But I'm the problem for calling them out on it...

Powderman wrote: I don't know why, and I don't know what triggered you in this direction.

deadshot2 wrote:

Powderman wrote: I don't know why, and I don't know what triggered you in this direction.

He got a lifetime subscription to a "Cops Fucking Up" newsletter.

Now he spends all his free time "scraping" the internet for stories like this so he can repost with his own editorial comments.


As for LEO's getting away with murder, funny thing is I read and see news reports regularly that tell of officers being charged, tried, and convicted of crimes against citizens INCLUDING HOMICIDE! Considering that every officer who fires his weapon and wounds/kills someone is subjected to a rather severe investigation that includes their personal lives, perhaps even a colonoscopy, before they are cleared (or charged).

In my area the investigation is conducted by a team that is constituted of Officers/Detectives from OTHER departments to insure there is no departmental cover-up.

FWIW, the constant Cop Bashing gets tired even to a non LEO. I'd rather rant about how criminals are brought to the Courts and then receive little more than a spanking. Watching that happen I have to praise the law enforcement community for showing restraint. If they didn't than some of these turds that are on their 8th, 9th, 10th, felony (or more) would just end up in a dumpster with a "third eye" rather than being delivered to the booking desk after their next arrest.

deadshot2 wrote:

Powderman wrote: I don't know why, and I don't know what triggered you in this direction.

He got a lifetime subscription to a "Cops Fucking Up" newsletter.

Now he spends all his free time "scraping" the internet for stories like this so he can repost with his own editorial comments.

leadcounsel wrote:The other tell-tale LEO bashing evidence is not a single word about the fact that this guy was wanted for stabbing his girlfriend, and that's why multiple armed units responded with guns drawn.

TechnoWeenie wrote:

leadcounsel wrote:The other tell-tale LEO bashing evidence is not a single word about the fact that this guy was wanted for stabbing his girlfriend, and that's why multiple armed units responded with guns drawn.

A criminal's job is to be a criminal. The expectation is that they're already a fucking waste and POS.

A cop's job is to protect and serve, it actually says so right on their cars (LAPD). NOT to shoot innocent people. I expect them to save people, which I understand isn't always possible, but at the very least, not make the situation worse.

Again. Cops from the same agency kill 2 innocent people in less than 2 months, and bringing it up is 'LEO bashing'.... Fucking amazing.

leadcounsel wrote:

TechnoWeenie wrote:

leadcounsel wrote:The other tell-tale LEO bashing evidence is not a single word about the fact that this guy was wanted for stabbing his girlfriend, and that's why multiple armed units responded with guns drawn.

A criminal's job is to be a criminal. The expectation is that they're already a fucking waste and POS.

A cop's job is to protect and serve, it actually says so right on their cars (LAPD). NOT to shoot innocent people. I expect them to save people, which I understand isn't always possible, but at the very least, not make the situation worse.

Again. Cops from the same agency kill 2 innocent people in less than 2 months, and bringing it up is 'LEO bashing'.... Fucking amazing.

Okay, for the sake of argument, how would YOU have handled this exact situation differently?

Attempt to pretend you are a patrol officer, responding to a call about a man who stabbed his girlfriend and he's seen in an alley behind a homeless shelter. You respond and observe what these LEOs observed.

Go.

How would YOU have done this differently. I'm genuinely curious. .

And if it amounts to "I'd aim better," then that's not a sufficient answer

TechnoWeenie wrote:

leadcounsel wrote:

TechnoWeenie wrote:

leadcounsel wrote:The other tell-tale LEO bashing evidence is not a single word about the fact that this guy was wanted for stabbing his girlfriend, and that's why multiple armed units responded with guns drawn.

A criminal's job is to be a criminal. The expectation is that they're already a fucking waste and POS.

A cop's job is to protect and serve, it actually says so right on their cars (LAPD). NOT to shoot innocent people. I expect them to save people, which I understand isn't always possible, but at the very least, not make the situation worse.

Again. Cops from the same agency kill 2 innocent people in less than 2 months, and bringing it up is 'LEO bashing'.... Fucking amazing.

Okay, for the sake of argument, how would YOU have handled this exact situation differently?

Attempt to pretend you are a patrol officer, responding to a call about a man who stabbed his girlfriend and he's seen in an alley behind a homeless shelter. You respond and observe what these LEOs observed.

Go.

How would YOU have done this differently. I'm genuinely curious. .

I think they did good with verbal commands, and having both lethal and less lethal options available.

I think they needed to position themselves farther to the left, to take more advantage of the brick wall as a backstop. Yes, there are risks of a ricochet but much better than having no backstop....

Don't stop bean bagging him because the first 2 or 3 rounds were ineffective. Obviously the chair blocked it. When he dropped the chair, hit him again.

When he started moving towards the woman, I would have angled so that I had a clear shot of him, and warned him if he moved he'd be shot. I'd probably have someone else attempt a TASER shot with lethal backup...Once it was clear he was heading for her, if I didn't have a clear shot, I'd close distance until I did, realizing that I may be the focus of the knife/bladed weapon.. I'd rather get stabbed/cut than shoot an innocent woman. Yes, I know the 21ft rule.

I understand we're literally talking 3 seconds here, and typing it out is a lot harder than just showing it..

But this is my whole point. Cops aren't supposed to make things WORSE.. Sure, shitty situation, but if you're making it WORSE, you're not doing your job. This is why I get on cops for escalating situations needlessly to 'prove' they're in charge, or whatever you wanna call it....

And if it amounts to "I'd aim better," then that's not a sufficient answer

I think we both know and agree that'd be a bullshit answer, however an officer with a rifle and decent optics could have made a difference, but given how fast it unfolded, I think even IF an officer exited his vehicle with rifle in hand, it would have been too late/ineffective.

Was it on purpose? No. Cops don't go out each day trying to find ways to kill people...

Was it a shitty circumstance? Absolutely.

But that does NOT absolve them of acting reasonably and responsibly, nor from consequences of their action.

You'd think shooting and killing one innocent woman would be a wake up call, an 'oh shit' moment, if you will.. But, nope.. business as usual.. and another innocent woman is dead...