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Pistol study, larger calibers more fatalities.
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Site Supporter   Location: RENTON Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 Posts: 20841 Real Name: John 
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Forensics magazine study finds more deaths with larger pistol calibers.
Not exactly shocking really. https://www.forensicmag.com/news/2018/0 ... tudy-finds _________________ Mr. Q wrote: so basically, if you have to smoke some asshole, make sure they become fertilizer and then Bounce? got it. Guntrader wrote: Huh, maybe I was an asshole. NRA Member/RSO SAF 5 Year Donor GOA Member |
| Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:40 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: Can't say Joined: Sun Sep 7, 2014 Posts: 8131
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I don't know the ins and outs of the study, but I'm heavily convinced that the sweet spot for pistol calibers is the 9, 40, 45, and 357 in performance, and the semi-autos tend to offer the best capacity vs size. And within those, the 9 and 40 are generally my "go to" for capacity and price. But in magazine restricted states, the .45 shines with under 10 round mags.
IMHO, Folks selecting anything smaller are doing themselves a dis-service, unless they have some specific inability to fire a standard caliber as above. _________________ I defend the 2A. US Army Combat Veteran and Paratrooper: OIF Veteran. BSM and MSM recipient. NRA Lifetime. Entertainment purposes only. I'm a lawyer, but have not offered you legal advice. |
| Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:24 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: Lynnwood/Bothell Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 Posts: 8688 Real Name: Curtis
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Larger calibers are more "forgiving" if shot placement is less than optimal, so they do have that advantage over smaller calibers. But I maintain that the better your shot placement, the less important the size of the hole.
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| Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:34 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: central wa Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 Posts: 3573
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Correlation is not causality. This "study" cherry picked data, and did not control for significant variables, such as:
1. shooter training/experience level 2. age/sex/race/health of victim 3. number/placement of wounds 4. who fired first 5. number of rounds exchanged 6. range 7. duration 8. cover 9. time to receive/nature if medical care received etc. Last edited by quantsuff on Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total. |
| Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:47 pm |
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Site Supporter Location: Maple valley Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 Posts: 3694
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Any way you look at it, it’s gonna hurt if you get shot.
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| Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:52 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: maple valley Joined: Mon May 6, 2013 Posts: 2578 Real Name: Earl
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Guns4Liberty wrote: Larger calibers are more "forgiving" if shot placement is less than optimal, so they do have that advantage over smaller calibers. But I maintain that the better your shot placement, the less important the size of the hole. I agree. The One shot Stop is pretty rare in my understanding, no matter the caliber. |
| Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:53 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: East of Japan, not by much. Joined: Fri Jun 3, 2011 Posts: 13009
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44 Magnum, 265 grain jacketed soft points alternating with 300 grain solid bronze projectiles.
A few speed loaders, and I think I am good to go. And, I don't mind using more than one shot. Everybody can have at least two or three apiece. If it was good enough for Harry Callahan, it's good enough for me. _________________ Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Give a man a fishing pole, and he will drink too much beer, get tangled in fish line, hook himself in the nose casting, fall overboard, and either drown, or, go home hungry and wet. Give a man a case of dynamite, and he will feed the whole town for a year! BE ON NOTICE: PRIVACY NOTICE: Warning - any person and/or institution and/or Agent and/or Agency of any governmental structure including but not limited to the United States Federal Government also using or monitoring/using this website or any of its associated websites, you do NOT have my permission to utilize any of my profile information nor any of the content contained herein including, but not limited to my photos, and/or the comments made about my photos or any other "picture" art posted on my profile. You are hereby notified that you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing, disseminating, or taking any other action against me with regard to this profile and the contents herein. The foregoing prohibitions also apply to your employee, agent, student or any personnel under your direction or control. The contents of this profile are PRIVATE and legally privileged and confidential information, and the violation of my personal privacy is punishable by law. UCC 1-103 1-308 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED WITHOUT PREJUDICE |
| Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:21 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: olympia Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 Posts: 3795
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This was posted before from a guy here. Thought I would attach it to this thread as it seems similar.
/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=89965&hilit=ballistics+study |
| Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:54 pm |
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Site Supporter Location: maple valley Joined: Mon May 6, 2013 Posts: 2578 Real Name: Earl
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RENCORP wrote: 44 Magnum, 265 grain jacketed soft points alternating with 300 grain solid bronze projectiles. A few speed loaders, and I think I am good to go. And, I don't mind using more than one shot. Everybody can have at least two or three apiece. If it was good enough for Harry Callahan, it's good enough for me. 29-2 FTW! |
| Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:17 pm |
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 Site Supporter  Location: Kentucky Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 Posts: 11575
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quantsuff wrote: Correlation is not causality. This "study" cherry picked data, and did not control for significant variables, such as: 1. shooter training/experience level 2. age/sex/race/health of victim 3. number/placement of wounds 4. who fired first 5. number of rounds exchanged 6. range 7. duration 8. cover 9. time to receive/nature if medical care received etc. I see your point but you can't really have a scientific study about this sort of thing unless you want to start shooting people in staged circumstances. [insert liberal lawmaker joke here] The study analyzed data over five years. I think that's long enough to average data. They do kinda pick and choose what to weight but on the whole it's not bad. _________________ You may be right, I may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for |
| Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:23 pm |
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Site Supporter Location: Can't say Joined: Sun Sep 7, 2014 Posts: 8131
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RocketScott wrote: quantsuff wrote: Correlation is not causality. This "study" cherry picked data, and did not control for significant variables, such as: 1. shooter training/experience level 2. age/sex/race/health of victim 3. number/placement of wounds 4. who fired first 5. number of rounds exchanged 6. range 7. duration 8. cover 9. time to receive/nature if medical care received etc. I see your point but you can't really have a scientific study about this sort of thing unless you want to start shooting people in staged circumstances. [insert liberal lawmaker joke here] The study analyzed data over five years. I think that's long enough to average data. They do kinda pick and choose what to weight but on the whole it's not bad. Correct. Probably never going to have a "perfect" study on this. So we are generally left with assumptions that folks shooting other folks are attempting to do their best to stop or kill them. If we assume folks are doing their best across the board, all things are sorta washed out as far as shot placement and number of hits, etc. I think generally bigger calibers hit harder due to physics, and make bigger holes, and go deeper. Some of the variables are also probably that more experienced shooters tend to gravitate to bigger calibers, bigger guns (long barrels/site radius) and probably better hits. I haven't bothered to read the study though. Since it settles nothing other than confirming a decision, or causing argument. _________________ I defend the 2A. US Army Combat Veteran and Paratrooper: OIF Veteran. BSM and MSM recipient. NRA Lifetime. Entertainment purposes only. I'm a lawyer, but have not offered you legal advice. |
| Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:08 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: Nova Laboratories Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 Posts: 19173 Real Name: Johnny 5
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Duke EB wrote: The One shot Stop is pretty rare in my understanding, no matter the caliber. NCHP switched to 357 sig (.40 case necked to a 9mm bullet, with light .357 mag ballistics) and their officer involved shootings with a single round fired increased, and the overall number of average bullets fired per incident dropped. No 'magic bullet', but IMHO, 357 sig is damned close. Only issue is cost....Otherwise I'd be carrying it... Much like the 7.62x39 154gr sp, both are overlooked, with a wound profile that's quite devastating to soft tissue. _________________ NO DISASSEMBLE! Thomas Paine wrote: "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." |
| Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: The banana belt of MT Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 Posts: 8703 Real Name: Brian
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Daddy always said....45ACP will take a man down in 1 or 2 shots, 9mm with 4 or 5.
44 magnum will take down a bear with a hard cast bullet. _________________ "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."- Hunter S. Thompson |
| Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:17 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: South Seattle Joined: Thu May 2, 2013 Posts: 13412 Real Name: Steve
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Duke EB wrote: Guns4Liberty wrote: Larger calibers are more "forgiving" if shot placement is less than optimal, so they do have that advantage over smaller calibers. But I maintain that the better your shot placement, the less important the size of the hole. I agree. The One shot Stop is pretty rare in my understanding, no matter the caliber. Ridiculous statement! You must not watch the same movies I do!  Well, unless it's the hero, then he can take multiple hits, but still has lines the next day... But seriously, much like knife classes I've taken, it takes time to bleed out... Whether a perfect strike with bullet or knife, until enough blood leaves the heart & brain... |
| Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:15 pm |
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Site Supporter Location: Can't say Joined: Sun Sep 7, 2014 Posts: 8131
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Ya know, I see a LOT of 1-shot stops/kills on the Active Self Protection YT site. I'm actually quite surprise. Folks get shot and often fall right there and are pretty much leaking until they die in a minute.
Just watched one yesterday where a mugging victim took a single chest shot and expired in the parking lot 20 steps from being shot. In another vid yesterday, perp mugged 3 men who were noncompliant. Popped all three with the handgun, and all three died in the course of the video, draining blood... And Trayvon took a 9x19 right to the heart and lung and instantly stopped assaulting Zimmerman and died in an estimated 20 seconds.... So, it's really not as rare as folks say if you carry a capable caliber and round. NWGunner wrote: Duke EB wrote: Guns4Liberty wrote: Larger calibers are more "forgiving" if shot placement is less than optimal, so they do have that advantage over smaller calibers. But I maintain that the better your shot placement, the less important the size of the hole. I agree. The One shot Stop is pretty rare in my understanding, no matter the caliber. Ridiculous statement! You must not watch the same movies I do! Well, unless it's the hero, then he can take multiple hits, but still has lines the next day... But seriously, much like knife classes I've taken, it takes time to bleed out... Whether a perfect strike with bullet or knife, until enough blood leaves the heart & brain... _________________ I defend the 2A. US Army Combat Veteran and Paratrooper: OIF Veteran. BSM and MSM recipient. NRA Lifetime. Entertainment purposes only. I'm a lawyer, but have not offered you legal advice. |
| Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:00 pm |
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