Pretty fucked up situation and a huge overreach by the uk.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eu ... story.html

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

you serious Clark?

The only fucked up part of this is that she fled the UK to fight/supports UK's enemy in the first place. I support her losing her citizenship 100% just like I support Trump advising Pompeo to not let that sympathizer back into the US and uphold that she is NOT a US citizen.

How ANYBODY could see it any other way is beyond me.

Revoking citizenship is unheard of for good reason. Next time the UK wants to deport someone undesirable they've just opened the door to other countries saying no and revoking their own citizens rights to return. There is a reason why this isn't done.

Secondly, she was born in the UK, raised in the UK and educated in the UK. At the end of the day - she isn't Syria's responsibility and unless they plan to detain her she is the UK's responsibility and the UK should live up to it's responsibility and look to detain her or rehabilitate her.

You have Huntley's and Bellfields sitting in jail in the UK. They are infinitely worse than Shamima and are guilty of actual murder and murderous crimes. They were however given due process, a trial and a sentencing. Shamima has received no due process and yet the UK is punishing her. She deserves to be punished and held accountable - but after she is investigated and charged, not summarily with no scope to defend herself.

If you don't value due process then fair enough - but I can tell you it's the difference between utter authoritarianism or worse, and a civilised society. Due process is one of the most important rights we have but it hasn't been afforded to Shamima.

Finally - she was groomed as a 13/14 year old, married off at 15. She has never been outside that bubble since and is now most likely quite indoctrinated. She is surrounded by extremely vicious people who would murder her in her sleep if she spoke out.

She should be brought back to the UK and ultimately will be when the Home Offices little dog and pony show is over. It should annoy you that they are breaking international law and their own guidelines to show off how right wing they are.

She should be investigated and her culpability established. Was she willing, was she groomed, how did it happen what is the context and at that point society can decide how she should be punished.

This entire affair is just another embarrassment for the UK.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The UK has a rather clear process for stripping citizenship when it comes to those who appear to have dual nationality, as in Begum's case, and they followed that process. If Bangladesh now wants to wash their hands of her, aren't they the ones who have overreached?

The process in the UK may be flawed and that should be dealt with if it is, but the gov did follow the appropriate steps given the current law.

Begum and these other twits who think they'll get easier treatment from the West than if they stay with the warlords and terrorists they chose to join may have been done a favor by being declared persona non grata. You can't charge someone with treason if they aren't a citizen of your country.

It seems strange to me that you can revoke citizenship of someone UNLESS they were naturalized. They should allow her to come back in and promptly arrest her if she's natural born.

From when I understand she hasn’t had citizenship in any other country but the uk.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

From this BBC article -- https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47301623



If the mother's nationality is disputed (either by the mother or Bangladesh) that's another matter. Given the legal advice, removing Begum's UK citizenship was done in line with the established process and it doesn't appear that they intended to leave her stateless.

Interesting, regardless it’s not Syria’s problem to deal with. She should be brought back to the uk and have a trial and due process. She’s not Bangladesh’s problem either as she was born and raised in the UK. My other points stand in my earlier reply to barfly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly what I’m saying, she should face charges for what she’s done but shouldn’t lose citizenship to the country she was born in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am a bit confused by this and the Hoda case.
I have generally thought that nations want to get their hands on people who have done them harm, most especially if they can find some way to claim jurisdiction.
So in this case and the Hoda case, the US and UK are actively looking for ways to remove their ability to prosecute.
Is it because of a political/justice climate in which young females will not receive a harsh (enough) punishment?
Is it a cost saving measure?

The appeal of "washing the hands" of someone who took up arms against their nation of birth is clear... I just wasn't aware of it being used before.

Culpability ?!? Why would you try and paint her as a victim...? My 14 year old knows right from wrong and that ISIS is our ENEMY. If she's a UK citizen, then she's committed TREASON. I feel no pity for her nor anybody else who sympathizes with our enemy and especially for those who decide to actually defect and fight for our enemy or support their fighting effort! Fine, bring her back to UK, put her on public trial for treason and then hang her bitch ass in public view as an example for others who would "sympathize" with those would would wage war against us and our allies.

Out of curiosity, do you feel as though Houda Muthana is also a victim?

If Syria let her in upon her arrival 4 years ago, then I should think she is most certainly their problem.

From another story (it's CNN, sorry, but occasionally they have readable reporting) -- https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/20/uk/shamima-begum-uk-citizenship-stripped-gbr-intl/index.html



That quote was made earlier this year, just days after she gave birth to her third child (she's 19 years old). Her previous 2 children died from illness and malnutrion and she told her family that she wanted to come back to the UK to have her third.

From the same story:



Now she recognizes she picked the losing team, she isn't having fun anymore, and she's tired of her kids dying. Does she really consider herself a UK citizen? Or does she just see a return to the UK as the cushy route?

Also, just how much contact has she been having with her family through all of this? That seems like a worthwhile question.

ETA:

Here's another quote from a different BBC story that sheds more light on her sudden burst of patriotism:



She's referring to her third child and her desire to keep him from dying like his siblings. She wants healthcare and apparently the caliphate isn't brimming with qualified MDs.

That puts a lot more context around the story, thank you.
I freely admit that I would have had a different reaction to a young man who had done the same thing. It's automatic, and I have to think on it (and get help like that ^ post from mislabeled) to understand the whole thing.

In these recent cases, they're still using weapons, just not truck bombs and swords. They're using children and playing the victim card. "Ooooooh, my babies are in danger." Fuck you and your babies. Regardless of whether Begum should have been stripped of her UK citizenship (though at this point it seems the law enacted in 1981 was properly followed), what sort of person would they be bringing back? Someone who is contrite, or someone who will become an ISIS recruiter on UK soil? Begum was the one who initiated contact with another female Westerner-turned-ISIS recruiter online, which is what led to her moving to Syria 4 years ago. Will she use that same tactic to bring others into the radical fold?

Nah, she's just a momma trying to do right by her kid. /sarcasm

Note that she made no effort to return to the UK until she had a really good reason. Depending on your point of view, that reason was either that her most recent child was in serious danger and she needed help, or the reason was that she had an excellent story to sell to a bleeding-heart public. I'd like to think it's the former, but did it really take losing 2 children -- 2! -- for her to figure out her situation was shit?

I'm a skeptic.