Some excellent pricing on body armor and carrier packages. Basically for a set the carrier is free.

There are some great prices. And if you don't get the package deals, there's a code "givethanks" for discounts too, something like 16% off.

https://www.ar500armor.com/promotions-sales.html

I’d highly suggest against buying targets as armor. Rma ceramic plates are very reasonably priced for nij certified and fairly light plates. Hell I’d even go with l210s over steel.

Here’s an interesting test on steel armor: https://www.lightfighter.net/topic/leve ... oncealable


Steel is not useful as body armor. Setting aside the ballistic inferiority compared to ceramics and polyethylene, it is obscenely heavy. Plate weight is compared with areal density, how many pounds per square foot the plate is. This removes the issue of different cuts of plate having different sizes, and conveniently works across all sizes.

SAPI, AT Armor STOP BZ, and HESCO's U210, some of the best plates on the market, are around 5.14lb/ft2.

HESCO 4800 and new-generation ESAPIs are 6.42lb/ft2.

Legacy ESAPI and Midwest Venture's FM4 are 7lb/ft2, and are relatively heavy -- one does not want to exceed this if at all possible.

XSAPI is 7.7lb/ft2, and is considered the heaviest plate that an athletic, fit person can realistically move and shoot in a coordinated and safe manner in.

Commercial steel is between 10 and 14lb /ft2. This is unacceptably heavy, to the point of causing greatly accelerated carrier wear, extreme user fatigue, and a dramatic reduction in combat effectiveness.

You can barely move in commercial steel armor. It is not worth considering for that alone, nevermind that any idiot with a 16" barrel AR and Federal XM193 is going to blast through it like a 16 year old driver at a stop sign.

Also not the mention the spalling issue with steel.

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Much of what you write seems extremely exaggerated.

*2 steel plates at 8 lbs each is 16 lbs. Cheap, thin, indefinite storage, durable, and multi-hit capable.

*2 ceramic plates at 8 lbs each for 16lbs and are thicker/bulkier, more expensive, and not as durable nor long term. Drop them, and they're suspect. In the military we had to turn ours in regularly for X-ray and replacement. They get compromised if they get wet.

* The plates you've suggested, just on a analysis weight, are 1/2 as heavy. So you're talking about a marginal difference of 16lbs vs. maybe 5-8lbs. For a net trivial difference of 8-11lbs spread across and adult's upper body. Hardly anything to worry about for the likely brief time someone will don it.

I suspect the ceramic would be lighter and easier to deal with for people on the move.

If all you do is go in and out of helicopters for show, then the pounds are ok.

If you do buy steel plates, do yourself a favor and find the ones with the best anti-spall protection. Nobody wants to take shrapnel to the face.

Or just buy a can of line x because that’s all they use and it really doesn’t do much. It still will spall.


Leadcounsil you didn’t read the article with the testing as steel isn’t really multi hit. Also steel plate manufacturers are trying to stop the new nij standards because they know there’s no way for steel to meet the standards without doubling in weight. Steel plates are absolutely not worth it at all.


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Which is precisely why I don't own any steel armor, and never will.

I've watched steel tests online. Multi hit no problem.

I've shot steel countless thousands of times now. Multi-hit no problem.

I've dropped steel on hard surfaces, no damage.

I'm not worried about "spall," my concern is stopping live rounds for a affordable and easy to use and store long term price. Steel is superior to all the other products unless you have unlimited budgets and resourcing/requisition abilities.

Shaving a couple pounds at the tradeoff of fragile plates, much thicker plates, or far more expensive plates all with short shelf life might be good for some but not what I want.

FYI, I wore issued ceramic plates on all 4 of my deployments to Iraq. And at Air Assault school when I rucked my 12 miles to graduation in the allotted 3 hours. And when I was at the 101st doing 4-12 miles rucks on a regular (read nearly daily, and at least weekly) basis. And doing morning "buddy carry" PT. Where were y'all? That's what I thought....

I'm familiar with the limitations of non-steel armor. I'll take steel. Thanks.

The cited Hesco 4800 is $1400 PER PLATE. That's about 10x or more the cost of steel. You're only saving a couple of pounds of weight. A trivial amount for 10x costs.

For comparison:
* Hesco 4800 full kit 4 plates and carrier would cost around $4500.
* AR500 full kit 4 plates and carrier would cost around $500. A 9x price savings.

You could outfit 2 average families with body armor for the price of 1 Hesco setup. Or another advantage is having extra sets staged (work, home, bug out location, trunk of car). Absurd price difference. Economical is tactically smart. In other works, affordable is tactical.

Also, if you want to debate, post some actual figures, not esoteric links to stuff where we all have to do research.

Post:
* Protection levels
* Costs
* Thickness
* Weight
* Multi-hit
* Shelf life

All the stuff I've seen casually looking at the new products has many drawbacks versus steel.

Spall is a minor issue, and able to be minimized.

If steel is that superior how come you were wearing ceramic in Iraq and not steel?


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Because .gov was paying the bill?

For the same reason I was wearing UCP camouflage that doesn't blend in with anything. For the same reason we were not allowed to wear perfectly good black fleece coats on cold days. For the same reason we were not allowed to wear dust masks even during heavy sand storms. And hundreds of other examples.

It's the military and they aren't always smart or right. It just is. Never a good or clear answer.

Best guess, some bean counter thought it was best or some Congressman got a contract in his district or some company won a bid.

Retort question: Why did the military push the M16 into combat service before it was ready and it was clearly inferior with design flaws (not chrome lined interior, no forward assist, etc.), wrong propellant caused fouling and malfunctions, bad magazine designs, wrong twist rates for accuracy, and no cleaning kits among other things. A very popular example of the top brass and civilian leaders being morons.

MyNameIs940 had some good info.

We all have opinions and none of what any of us has presented is usable for any research or decision paper.

However it is interesting to read people's opinions in the matter.

For some, the spall from a hit on steel may be a screening criteria, i.e. a no go for any decision.

For others, price may be a qualitative criteria.

For all of us, weight is important.

After Secdef Rumsfeld was questioned by troops in Iraq on why they were not issued body armor nor had armored vehicles, Rumsfeld gave the remark "you go to war with the army you have, not with the army you wish you had". However after that remark, the Army went full speed into meeting the needs of the soldiers and in the area of body armor, after some quick evaluations at PEO Soldier, weighing cost, sustainability, training, survivability, weight, etc. came up with the package that was issued (IBA, then IOTV). Specifications were issued, contracts awarded, and among the parts was the ceramic body armor. Some were made with substandard methods and the plates by number were withdrawn. But no one in their right minds would issue steel plates at that time for many reasons: weight, spall, etc. Besides, the existing body armor, with later side and shoulder additions were wrecking too many peoples backs and spines. TOO HEAVY.

And because the things that concern a civilian spending his own money do not factor in to military procurement.

* Military does do bidding, but gets favorable bid numbers civilians cannot.
* Military has big gorilla in the room weight for leverage, returns, testing, contract negotiations and outright canceling contracts on a whim.
* Military has infinite procurement and supply chain to get plates X-rayed and replaced to infinity. So shelf life is meaningless. They all get replaced regularly.

Civilians have none/few of that resources. Meaning if you drop your plate in the military and it cracks, you have a new one immediately from a warehouse of inventory. If you're not sure if your plate is cracked, you get it replaced immediately from a warehouse of inventory. None of that is going to happen (easily or inexpensively) for a civilian. If you take a shot and your plate is damaged, you get a new one immediately. If your plate is expired, you get a new one immediately.

Hence shelf life and durability are critical for a civilian IMO.