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 Firearms Academy of Seattle - final review. 
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Location: Hawks Prairie
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The best way I have come up with to describe my FAS experience is to liken it to finding out that a really good book from your favorite author is coming out as a big budget movie. His previous books' movies have all been blockbusters and you're really excited for this one to come out. This movie has a new director, but you've heard good things about them. You wait several months with great anticipation. You read everything you can find about the production. You Like the movie's Facebook page. You watch the trailers. You buy your opening night tickets a couple of weeks in advance. You get to the theatre early and load up on Dots and Junior Mints. You recline back in your seat and sit through a half hour of previews. Then the movie starts... and it's a smoking pile of crap. The acting is horrible and it doesn't follow the story at all. It's a big disappointment. You walk out before it ends.

When I arrived on day one, I was surprised at the "rustic-ness" of the facility. Restrooms are three porta-potties, two of which appear to be quite old and ratty. We were also told that we were welcome to pee in the bushes behind the classroom, if we preferred to "commune with nature". The classroom itself is in a very plain wooden building, with dim lighting, folding tables and folding chairs. The range we used was very basic, but serviceable. Like something that a gun enthusiast with a little bit of property would build in his backyard.

The class itself was very basic. The classroom portion, and there was a lot of that, was Mojave Desert dry. It consisted of the instructors reading us the text of the course outline that was handed out and videos of Marty Hayes lecturing on various subjects. The shooting portions were a big disappointment for me. The instructors gave some demonstrations of the task at hand, then we shot it a couple of times. Then we moved on to the next. No opportunity to practice to any extent.

The biggest disappointment was the instructors themselves. I'm used to going classes that are being taught by retired military or law enforcement. People that have "been there/done that". That are excited to be doing what they are doing. They communicate that excitement to the students and make the subject matter interesting and fun. These two were not. They made a repeated point of talking about all the people that they have "trained with". Mas Ayoob, Jeff Cirillo, et al. In actuality, they were both good shots, but their presentation had all of the excitement of reading a textbook and who cares if they've met Mas? Teach me something new. If it wasn't so maddening, it would have been laughable.

In full disclosure, I left after lunch on day two. I just couldn't see wasting a truly beautiful Sunday afternoon in a situation where I wasn't learning anything and was not even having fun doing it. That's right, I wasn't having fun while shooting. Seriously.

My honest feeling is that one could learn more on the subject matter presented in this class by watching a Youtube video by a reputable trainer and taking that information to the range yourself. For me, this class was a waste of $425 (plus the $5 for the effing brass) and I won't be back. I'll gladly travel to Front Sight, Gunsite, Sig Academy or Thunder Ranch for quality training, like I've done for the last three years.

******************************************

From the day prior:

I paid them $425 for a two day class. Mid-way through day 1, they inform us that they want us to pay them $5 cash for them to pick up our brass, or pick up our 400 rounds of spent brass ourselves. Lemme get this straight. I gave you $425. You want ME to pay YOU $5 more to pick up the brass that I created by spending MY $425 to come to your facility. You also told us that you SELL our brass, at what would be 100% gross profit, PLUS our $5 apiece. If I wasn't there with my buddy, I probably would have walked out and come home. If it's really an issue, raise the price to $430.

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Last edited by Beretta Dave on Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:35 pm
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I'd be pissed, too...sounds knd of cheesy.

They've been around awhile, right? This sounds like a rookie or fly-by-night kinda move.

Since this isn't new, they should bite the bullet ( :bigsmile: ), and eat the cost, and then amend what they charge on future classes.

What if someone is handicapped, or has a bad back, or has high blood pressure & gets light headed when bending over for an extended period, or whatever...

Like I said, sounds cheesy & low class...


Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:18 pm
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I co-taught a class for LE people at FAS last December, and at that time was told the biz was being bought by one of the instructors...could be her policy.

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Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:50 pm
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Looks like Marty Hayes is still the sole Governing Person, according to State Business License, and the DOR; he's also listed tops on their website.


Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:35 pm
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Yeah, that policy would get me fired up too. Seems rather nickel-and-dimey.

Do let us know about the rest of the class and how you liked it after it's over, please.

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Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:16 am
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I remember this from years past. I don't think they sell the brass but get neighbor kids to pick it up or you can pick it up.


Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:47 am
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jackass wrote:
I remember this from years past. I don't think they sell the brass but get neighbor kids to pick it up or you can pick it up.


They actually said "We're trying to find someone new to buy our brass."

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Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:03 am
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Dave in Edmonds wrote:
jackass wrote:
I remember this from years past. I don't think they sell the brass but get neighbor kids to pick it up or you can pick it up.


They actually said "We're trying to find someone new to buy our brass."


Yeah, they could have assumed 1% of the cost to handle the brass. And sold it on waguns.

Or tell people have at the brass after class.


Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:06 am
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You brought it in. Why is not still your property?

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Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:21 am
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This has been a long term policy there. The reality is that you pay to go to the range and you’re expected to pick up your brass, so I view it as no different. They give you the option - $5 or police your brass. They do state that pay local kids to pick up the brass. Whether they do or not, I don’t know. Some guys want their brass, so it gives them to the option to save money on that (vs. charging everyone).

On the brass, Marty is always open that they sell any brass that “they” pick up. Not sure what else you expect them to do with it. If you ask, he’ll give you two 5 gallon buckets of unsorted brass. You go home, sort it and bring one bucket of sorted brass back.

You can say scam, but you’ve got the option to participate or not. So they’re really just giving you the option.


Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:49 am
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new daddy wrote:
This has been a long term policy there. The reality is that you pay to go to the range and you’re expected to pick up your brass, so I view it as no different. They give you the option - $5 or police your brass. They do state that pay local kids to pick up the brass. Whether they do or not, I don’t know. Some guys want their brass, so it gives them to the option to save money on that (vs. charging everyone).

On the brass, Marty is always open that they sell any brass that “they” pick up. Not sure what else you expect them to do with it. If you ask, he’ll give you two 5 gallon buckets of unsorted brass. You go home, sort it and bring one bucket of sorted brass back.

You can say scam, but you’ve got the option to participate or not. So they’re really just giving you the option.


Then this should be disclosed at time of registration, not dropped on you in the middle of the first day. If they had done so, this would be a non-issue, though I'd still ask "why" it is not included in the price of the class.

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Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:39 pm
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Dave in Edmonds wrote:
Then this should be disclosed at time of registration, not dropped on you in the middle of the first day. If they had done so, this would be a non-issue, though I'd still ask "why" it is not included in the price of the class.


I was thinking about this earlier today. This would be like if you went to dinner, ordered your food from the menu, and then as you were eating the waiter told you, "By the way, you can wash your dishes when your done; if you'd prefer not to, I can add a $5 per person dishwashing charge to your bill."

I haven't been to an FAS class, but if it's presented as Dave has told us, I don't like that policy either.

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Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:43 pm
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It's a shame to hear that. I've taken 2 classes there, the Level 1 AR Carbine and the Level 1 Shotgun.

I had the same instructor both times, but can't remember his name. I felt I got my monies worth on both classes. I don't remember an extra fee for the brass, but both were a few years ago.

My last experience at FAS was for the 2018 IDPA State match. It was a fun match and felt it moved along very nicely w/o being held up by the squad in front of me, BUT it didn't feel like a State Match. More like an advanced monthly match. Prior years were at Renton and the crew there really went all out on stage designs and props. FAS was straight forward, more "tactics" based stages which is great for a monthly match, but A State Match where you're trying to attract out of state national shooters needs to be a no holds barred type affair. It's being held there again this year and judging by how it goes, I might not shoot next year if it's at FAS again. It's also pretty damn far for me and I have the extra expense of a motel room for at least one night.

The staff that I have met at FAS, including Marty, have always been great and friendly and willing to share their knowledge even outside of the classroom. I have nothing bad to say there.


Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:14 pm
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MadPick wrote:
Dave in Edmonds wrote:
Then this should be disclosed at time of registration, not dropped on you in the middle of the first day. If they had done so, this would be a non-issue, though I'd still ask "why" it is not included in the price of the class.


I was thinking about this earlier today. This would be like if you went to dinner, ordered your food from the menu, and then as you were eating the waiter told you, "By the way, you can wash your dishes when your done; if you'd prefer not to, I can add a $5 per person dishwashing charge to your bill."

I haven't been to an FAS class, but if it's presented as Dave has told us, I don't like that policy either.



Yeah, that was my take. Spending $400-$500, driving hundreds of miles (how are you of Seattle, you're over 100 miles away?!?), plus a hotel room, and meals, and then getting nickeled and dimed, is cheesy.

But worse than that, to me, is, it's intentional. They've been around for years, and choose to do it this way.

This can't be the first complaint...yet this is still how they still do it...


Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:50 pm
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Dave, thanks for taking the time to write up your review.

For those that didn't notice, he updated the first post to include it. thumbsup

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Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:44 pm
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