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It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:59 pm
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[ 6 posts ] |
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joao01
Site Supporter
Location: Midwest Joined: Thu Oct 2, 2014 Posts: 8645
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Yeah, title is a little click-baity.
So I was looking at safes with a decent fire rating (90min +) and it looks like they're $2500 plus. My primary concern where I am is general firearms security (unauthorized access) and fire. Not to say theft isn't possible, but the terrain of my house and where I'd put a safe means the thieves would need to do some serious off-roading, or navigate a fairly narrow stairwell. The YL (as Dreadi puts it), suggested building a secure room with fire rated drywall and door instead. I have the space to do it, but I have sump pumps, breaker boxes, furnace, and house water supply to navigate. I've got plenty of room, but can't avoid any one or two of those based on the layout of my basement (i.e. there would probably be one or two in a room with the toys, unless I did just a closet sized space).
Has anyone else looked at safes vs. just building a lockable room for your Tools of Freedom? We plan to finish the basement anyway, and I doubt we'd take the safe with us when we move eventually, so that might give us an overlapping budget for real estate improvements and guns.
_________________Massivedesign wrote: I am thinking of a number somewhere between none of and your business.
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Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:33 am |
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jukk0u
Site Supporter
Location: Lynnwood and at large Joined: Wed May 1, 2013 Posts: 21147
Real Name: Vick Lagina
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Okay, so a guy I know built a gun room.
2 x 6 framed walls. Holes were drilled into each of te studs to allow rebar to be run in parallel horizontal rows. The rebar was loose in the holes and the design was intended to defeat a sawzall or similar from efficiently engaging the rebar (it would spin).
The inside of the room was double sheetrocked (5/8") and the outside of the walls were layers of drywall plywood and metal sheeting. Vault door for the entrance.
That's the gist of it. More intricacies were involved.
_________________ “Finding ‘common ground’ with the thinking of evil men is a fool’s errand” ~ Herschel Smith
"The said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." ~ Samuel Adams
“A return to First Principles in a Republic is sometimes caused by simple virtues of a single man. His good example has such an influence that the good men strive to imitate him, and the wicked are ashamed to lead a life so contrary to his example. Before all else, be armed!” ~ Niccolo Machiavelli
Láodòng zhèng zhūwèi zìyóu
FJB
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Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:48 pm |
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joao01
Site Supporter
Location: Midwest Joined: Thu Oct 2, 2014 Posts: 8645
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jukk0u wrote: Okay, so a guy I know built a gun room.
2 x 6 framed walls. Holes were drilled into each of te studs to allow rebar to be run in parallel horizontal rows. The rebar was loose in the holes and the design was intended to defeat a sawzall or similar from efficiently engaging the rebar (it would spin).
The inside of the room was double sheetrocked (5/8") and the outside of the walls were layers of drywall plywood and metal sheeting. Vault door for the entrance.
That's the gist of it. More intricacies were involved. that is a good idea.
_________________Massivedesign wrote: I am thinking of a number somewhere between none of and your business.
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Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:57 pm |
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Kick start my heart
Location: Chehalis Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 Posts: 946
Real Name: Jason
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I’ve actually thought about this lately. I’m wanting a new safe, but the idea of a small vault room is appealing because of where I want it.
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Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:06 pm |
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Feldrian
Location: Lynnwood Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 Posts: 13
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I've both built and demolished vaults regularly through the course of my career. Hope what I've learned helps -
Decide on what the primary function of your storage space is - fire or theft protection. The build will differ and typically compromise one for the benefit of the other unless you're going to pour concrete walls, which isn't practical inside an existing basement.
Fire protection - double 5/8 X core on each side of steel stud framing stands up well. Add a 90 min steel door and frame and your room will outperform the rest of the structure in a blaze. Your weak point will be the ceiling (first floor of the house). If that burns through you're screwed and there's no good way to reinforce without taking a lot of head space out of the room. Store your toys in the room off the floor in cabinets that will provide some degree of protection from water and smoke in the event the fire department has to douse your house. This assembly can be beefed up with steel cables running through the studs to slow wall penetration, but obviously isn't ideal to stop an intruder.
Theft protection - Cinder block outer wall backed by expanded mesh and acoustic rubber sandwiched in place by a conventionally framed wall with 5/8" X-core board to the inside of the room. This is a thick assembly, but provides decent theft protection. Again, finish with a steel 90 min door (out swing), or a vault door. Fire protection is less than the 4 ply 5/8" x-core assembly above, but the cinder blocks will function well, especially if they're plastered to slow mortar failure during an inferno. This type of assembly is a pain to penetrate - even with an abrasive cut off saw the rubber will smoke violently and reduce visibility in the room to zero almost immediately. A dedicated thief would have to break off the cinder block with a sledge or rotohammer, cut the expanded mesh with something that wouldn't make the rubber smoke and then finally penetrate normal framing and x core. They'd have to really want to get in and have plenty of time on their hands.
I'd recommend against rebar run through studs as a penetration barrier. While the idea behind the physics of the rotating bar under a sawsall makes sense, if you press down hard enough on the sawsall the friction of the rebar against the studs will be greater than the cutting friction and the sawsall will slice through. Cables are easier to string and do a better job of defeating a saw since they move back and forwards with a sawsall's motion and shake the operator instead of cutting.
Not sure any of this is going to be cheaper than a 90 min safe, although a typical 90 min safe offers very little theft protection, especially in the $2,500 price range.
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Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:32 pm |
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Feldrian
Location: Lynnwood Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 Posts: 13
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Forgot to add - Make sure you address ventilation or dehumidification. Tight gun rooms, especially in a basement where there is a higher probability of moisture penetration through the slab or walls run the risk or rusting your collection pretty quickly.
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Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:38 pm |
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