Gun store Shooting Locations It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 12:07 am



Rules WGO Chat Room Gear Rent Me Shield NRA SAF CCKRBA
Calendar




Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
 Magpul D-50 
Author Message
User avatar

Location: Bremerton
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017
Posts: 378
I love my D60 drums for my AR, but I will pass on the Scorpion mag. IMO a 50 rounder doesn't excite me when my PSA mags hold 35 rounds each. Should have made it 75 and I would have been all over it.


Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:33 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Can't say
Joined: Sun Sep 7, 2014
Posts: 8134
I'm not a fan of drum mags and I own zero drums on purpose.

Cost. Drums are generally 5-10x as expensive.
Capacity. You can often fit more ammo in less space in stick mags.
Complexity. The geometry and physics of sticks mags is simpler, leading to greater reliability.
Compactness. Stick mags are easier to store and carry.
Eggs-in-one-basket. If you're carrying 200 rounds in 2 drums or 15 sticks, a mag failure is less catastrophic with stick mags (e.g. you loose a lot less ammo if 1 stick mag breaks vs 2 drum mags).
Forced aimed fire, taking cover, and barrel cool down. If you're dumping volume of fire, mag changes force the user to put his head down and let the gun cool from time to time. It also promotes aimed fire and less ammo waste. And hot barrels are ruined fast... let your barrel cool.

I recently saw a video by Forgotten Weapons which goes into the history of drum mags, their failures, and why nations adopt and then quickly drop drum mags... many reasons I cited above. Watch if you'd like.

https://youtu.be/d69pw4PcBmE?t=5

_________________
I defend the 2A. US Army Combat Veteran and Paratrooper: OIF Veteran. BSM and MSM recipient. NRA Lifetime. Entertainment purposes only. I'm a lawyer, but have not offered you legal advice.


Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:29 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: South Seattle
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011
Posts: 13485
Real Name: JP
My thumbs love drum mags after range day, my wallet.. Not so much

_________________
Yes I Do Have A Beautiful Daughter.. I Also Have A Gun, A Shovel, & An Alibi


Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:58 pm
Profile
User avatar

Location: Bremerton
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017
Posts: 378
leadcounsel wrote:
I'm not a fan of drum mags and I own zero drums on purpose.

Cost. Drums are generally 5-10x as expensive.
Capacity. You can often fit more ammo in less space in stick mags.
Complexity. The geometry and physics of sticks mags is simpler, leading to greater reliability.
Compactness. Stick mags are easier to store and carry.
Eggs-in-one-basket. If you're carrying 200 rounds in 2 drums or 15 sticks, a mag failure is less catastrophic with stick mags (e.g. you loose a lot less ammo if 1 stick mag breaks vs 2 drum mags).
Forced aimed fire, taking cover, and barrel cool down. If you're dumping volume of fire, mag changes force the user to put his head down and let the gun cool from time to time. It also promotes aimed fire and less ammo waste. And hot barrels are ruined fast... let your barrel cool.

I recently saw a video by Forgotten Weapons which goes into the history of drum mags, their failures, and why nations adopt and then quickly drop drum mags... many reasons I cited above. Watch if you'd like.

https://youtu.be/d69pw4PcBmE?t=5
Like everything else everything has its advantages and disadvantages. I have ran the heck out of my D60s with zero issues and many others have also. Just because I may be running a drum mag doesn't mean I will be doing mag dumps it just extends my shooting till mag is empty, saying that I will never be relying on just a drum mag without having a few Pmags at the ready. Bottom line just another good option for the situation you are involved in.


Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:57 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Can't say
Joined: Sun Sep 7, 2014
Posts: 8134
PORTER wrote:
leadcounsel wrote:
I'm not a fan of drum mags and I own zero drums on purpose.

Cost. Drums are generally 5-10x as expensive.
Capacity. You can often fit more ammo in less space in stick mags.
Complexity. The geometry and physics of sticks mags is simpler, leading to greater reliability.
Compactness. Stick mags are easier to store and carry.
Eggs-in-one-basket. If you're carrying 200 rounds in 2 drums or 15 sticks, a mag failure is less catastrophic with stick mags (e.g. you loose a lot less ammo if 1 stick mag breaks vs 2 drum mags).
Forced aimed fire, taking cover, and barrel cool down. If you're dumping volume of fire, mag changes force the user to put his head down and let the gun cool from time to time. It also promotes aimed fire and less ammo waste. And hot barrels are ruined fast... let your barrel cool.

I recently saw a video by Forgotten Weapons which goes into the history of drum mags, their failures, and why nations adopt and then quickly drop drum mags... many reasons I cited above. Watch if you'd like.

https://youtu.be/d69pw4PcBmE?t=5
Like everything else everything has its advantages and disadvantages. I have ran the heck out of my D60s with zero issues and many others have also. Just because I may be running a drum mag doesn't mean I will be doing mag dumps it just extends my shooting till mag is empty, saying that I will never be relying on just a drum mag without having a few Pmags at the ready. Bottom line just another good option for the situation you are involved in.


I'm simply saying there just aren't any advantages.

1 container to hold 50 rounds costs $135. Contrast that with 2, 30-round containers costing $20 which holds 60 rounds. In that scenario, a drum mag costs ~8x as much for similar capacity.

That extra $110 represents costs of about 300 rounds of ammo. Or 1/5th the cost of a new rifle. Or 3 new lowers, etc.

So someone on a $135 budget could buy 1 D-mag and no ammo, or 2 standard mags and 300 rounds of ammo. Ammo equals training as well. And it takes maybe 2 seconds to change a magazine.

Alternately, a person could buy about 12, 30 round mags, which will hold 360 rounds of ammo, or nearly twice that of a full combat load out for the same price as 1 D-mag.

Not telling folks how to spend their money, but outside of the remote and unlikely odds of me needing to fire round #31 under duress and unable to instantly change mags on an empty chamber, I see absolutely no advantage to a drum mag at 5-10x the costs. Lots of ways to mitigate that situation with training, tactical reloads, taking cover, and having MORE loaded mags on hand.

It's just a LOT of coin for a 50 round ammo holder/feeder when alternatives are priced almost at free, and I'd rather have 12 mags on hand, than 1 D-mag.

Editing: That math is for AR 556 mags, but generally applies to other pistol mags, more or less. Pistol mags are generally 2-3x the cost of AR mags but still considerably less than a Dmag.

_________________
I defend the 2A. US Army Combat Veteran and Paratrooper: OIF Veteran. BSM and MSM recipient. NRA Lifetime. Entertainment purposes only. I'm a lawyer, but have not offered you legal advice.


Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:32 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Kentucky
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015
Posts: 11045
I agree with all your points LC

It's not the most practical but when has that stopped us from buying anything?

We'll see how well they work and what the retail price ends up at. I'll probably pick one up, still need to get the scorpion though

_________________
You may be right, I may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for


Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:07 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: South Seattle
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011
Posts: 13485
Real Name: JP
RocketScott wrote:
still need to get the scorpion though



I need one as well for my Scorpion.

If people think prices are high now, wait til' a mag ban happens

_________________
Yes I Do Have A Beautiful Daughter.. I Also Have A Gun, A Shovel, & An Alibi


Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:10 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Can't say
Joined: Sun Sep 7, 2014
Posts: 8134
L_O_G wrote:
RocketScott wrote:
still need to get the scorpion though



I need one as well for my Scorpion.

If people think prices are high now, wait til' a mag ban happens


All the more reason to buy numerous, lower priced and highly desirable standard mags. 1 broken/unreliable D-mag is putting all eggs in one basket versus a dozen standard mags, which are divisible among friends, selling, trading, caching, etc.

I digress.

_________________
I defend the 2A. US Army Combat Veteran and Paratrooper: OIF Veteran. BSM and MSM recipient. NRA Lifetime. Entertainment purposes only. I'm a lawyer, but have not offered you legal advice.


Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:14 pm
Profile
User avatar

Location: Puyallup
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012
Posts: 9065
Real Name: Richard Fitzwelliner
leadcounsel wrote:
PORTER wrote:
leadcounsel wrote:
I'm not a fan of drum mags and I own zero drums on purpose.

Cost. Drums are generally 5-10x as expensive.
Capacity. You can often fit more ammo in less space in stick mags.
Complexity. The geometry and physics of sticks mags is simpler, leading to greater reliability.
Compactness. Stick mags are easier to store and carry.
Eggs-in-one-basket. If you're carrying 200 rounds in 2 drums or 15 sticks, a mag failure is less catastrophic with stick mags (e.g. you loose a lot less ammo if 1 stick mag breaks vs 2 drum mags).
Forced aimed fire, taking cover, and barrel cool down. If you're dumping volume of fire, mag changes force the user to put his head down and let the gun cool from time to time. It also promotes aimed fire and less ammo waste. And hot barrels are ruined fast... let your barrel cool.

I recently saw a video by Forgotten Weapons which goes into the history of drum mags, their failures, and why nations adopt and then quickly drop drum mags... many reasons I cited above. Watch if you'd like.

https://youtu.be/d69pw4PcBmE?t=5
Like everything else everything has its advantages and disadvantages. I have ran the heck out of my D60s with zero issues and many others have also. Just because I may be running a drum mag doesn't mean I will be doing mag dumps it just extends my shooting till mag is empty, saying that I will never be relying on just a drum mag without having a few Pmags at the ready. Bottom line just another good option for the situation you are involved in.


I'm simply saying there just aren't any advantages.

1 container to hold 50 rounds costs $135. Contrast that with 2, 30-round containers costing $20 which holds 60 rounds. In that scenario, a drum mag costs ~8x as much for similar capacity.

That extra $110 represents costs of about 300 rounds of ammo. Or 1/5th the cost of a new rifle. Or 3 new lowers, etc.

So someone on a $135 budget could buy 1 D-mag and no ammo, or 2 standard mags and 300 rounds of ammo. Ammo equals training as well. And it takes maybe 2 seconds to change a magazine.

Alternately, a person could buy about 12, 30 round mags, which will hold 360 rounds of ammo, or nearly twice that of a full combat load out for the same price as 1 D-mag.

Not telling folks how to spend their money, but outside of the remote and unlikely odds of me needing to fire round #31 under duress and unable to instantly change mags on an empty chamber, I see absolutely no advantage to a drum mag at 5-10x the costs. Lots of ways to mitigate that situation with training, tactical reloads, taking cover, and having MORE loaded mags on hand.

It's just a LOT of coin for a 50 round ammo holder/feeder when alternatives are priced almost at free, and I'd rather have 12 mags on hand, than 1 D-mag.

Editing: That math is for AR 556 mags, but generally applies to other pistol mags, more or less. Pistol mags are generally 2-3x the cost of AR mags but still considerably less than a Dmag.

Sometimes spending money on fun stuff is fun

_________________
If she sits on your face and you can still hear, SHE'S NOT FAT.

I'm going to type out 3 paragraphs and wax eloquently about a similar story in my life. Pm me if you figured it out.


Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:55 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Aubrey Texas
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012
Posts: 384
They will sell many of these to the Glock mag PCC competition crowd, me included.

_________________
"The next best thing to being clever is being able to quote someone who is."
SGN Feedback 40+ all positive.


Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:02 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Bonney Lake
Joined: Tue Dec 2, 2014
Posts: 650
Real Name: Jon
ccontrol wrote:
They will sell many of these to the Glock mag PCC competition crowd, me included.


I’m not so sure about this. Depends on the reliability. It’s also harder to manipulate if your gun has a jam and you need to release the magazine. With the current stick mags holding 50+ rounds and the ability to drop them on ground without worrying I don’t know how many will buy this.


Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:09 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Aubrey Texas
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012
Posts: 384
Yukonjon wrote:
ccontrol wrote:
They will sell many of these to the Glock mag PCC competition crowd, me included.


I’m not so sure about this. Depends on the reliability. It’s also harder to manipulate if your gun has a jam and you need to release the magazine. With the current stick mags holding 50+ rounds and the ability to drop them on ground without worrying I don’t know how many will buy this.


Good points. The Ace here is the Magpul name, their stuff generally works and reliability has been questionable with some exisitng 9mm drums. Folks will use them because reloading or dropping the mag isn't typically an issue with 50 rounds on-tap. They are also handy in specific stage designs that may have barricade shots or prone shots. I've seen the D-60 223 version used in just such situations. Just another option in the bag for solving stage design.

_________________
"The next best thing to being clever is being able to quote someone who is."
SGN Feedback 40+ all positive.


Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:33 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 38 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum



Rules WGO Chat Room Gear Rent Me NRA SAF CCKRBA
Calendar


Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software for PTF.
[ Time : 3.324s | 19 Queries | GZIP : Off ]