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It is currently Wed Apr 17, 2024 3:51 pm
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A Small Primer On Mosin Rifles
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usrifle
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Location: RENTON Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 Posts: 20771
Real Name: John
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[quote="MosinZealot"]I have heard of this rifle, and it's highly intriguing.
So until then, here's a Finn M24 from the other end of the spectrum. usrifle has graciously shared some photos of his M24 with the SIG barrel mark in fancy script. I have a block letter one to share here too. The M24s had their barrels contracted with the Swiss "Schweiz-Industrie Gesellschaft Neuhausen" and the Germans "Bohler-Stahl". Barrels are not dated, but manufactured between 1924-1928. These are both "stepped" barreled rifles. The Finns made the M24s with heavier barrels and the non-stepped versions are hard to come by quote]
There were actually 18,000 made with the Bohler Stahl barrels and 8000 made with the SIG barrels. They were assembled starting in 1923 by SAKO. There is an interesting story of how the "Lotta" rifles came about. The "Lotta" name came from Lotta Svard, the name of the womans auxiliary which raised the funds to build/refurb 10,000 of these rifles. Lotta Svard was actually the name of a heroine in a Finnish patriotic song.
The very interesting thing about my M/24 is the "through" bolt that retains the upper barrel band. That's the original and is very rarely found. Usually the hole is open or has been plugged in the stock. It's the only one i have ever seen.
_________________ Mr. Q wrote: so basically, if you have to smoke some asshole, make sure they become fertilizer and then Bounce? got it.
Guntrader wrote: Huh, maybe I was an asshole.
NRA Member/RSO SAF 5 Year Donor GOA Member
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Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:57 am |
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MosinZealot
Location: Tumwater/Lacey Joined: Sun Jul 8, 2012 Posts: 89
Real Name: Герой
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What an amazing day at the gun show. Here are some more rifles that are more than meets the eye. Had a rather triumphant day at the gun show today. Mosins in all corners of the show at the Puyallup Fairgrounds. I got a tip off on an Instructie marked 91/30. I had rough directions to get to it, and was indeed one of the first people in the show when the doors opened. I hot footed it to where I approximately thought it was located. Instead, I stumbled across what from a distance appeared to be a Dragoon. Another fella walked up just a second before I did, and started looking at it. He looked it over for a couple minutes, and asked what they wanted. They said $200, and he put it back. I began my inspection. To my astonishment, he had placed back a Finn B Barrel. We settled on $180. I thought that was pretty fair. After careful disassembly to see the tang date and arsenal, I could not make anything out. It appears it may have been scrubbed off? It does have an import stamp. The bore was absolutely atrocious, but after some deliberation with a brush it just pushed out rust and more rust. Rusty patches too. I ran some CLP through it, and dried the bore out. As clean as I'll get it with a brush. I did a rapid fire of 10 rounds to heat it up, and sure enough, the patches with CLP on them were squeaking in that bore. Much to my amazement, that bore looks like it was made yesterday. Perfectly mirror shiny, like new and strong lands and grooves. I wouldn't look down that bore with an LED bore light, unless I wanted my retina to catch on fire. Anyways, here are some pics. Deutches Reich cartouche Interesting stamp on the butt plate Sestroryetsk rear sight Looks like Finn preservative that has collected some of a forest from somewhere And the biggest mystery to me, the tang Overall So after I acquired the B barrel, I stopped at a table some fellow Mosin collectors had, and no sooner than I turn around I see the telltale red stripe on the stock. 1943 Izhevsk, non counterbored, and import marked. Bore is not quite as beautiful as the B barrel turned out to be, but it's nice and shiny, tiny bit of frosty bore. Interestingly enough upon disassembly, there are some burlap looking strips cut and placed against the top of the barrel beneath the handguard. And interestingly enough again, no discernable tang date either. Appears to be non existant. But it is a rough war time production, so maybe they just didn't stamp some of them and rolled them out? Anyways, pics. I was very careful upon disassembly not to remove any of the elements beneath the stock line. Nothing appeared to be causing any rust, except for one tiny pin hole under the burlap. Took care of that anyways. It was also great to meet some of the WA Guns guys there too. Someone there made a great haul too, maybe they will give us a look at what they have. Some good examples to learn by on the site, and will go perfect with this primer on Mosin rifles.
_________________ I am a Mosin Nagant evangelist, and I am on a mission to convert YOU! Always looking for Non-Import marked Nagant revolvers and Mosin Nagant rifles! Contact me if you are willing to sell!
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Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:15 pm |
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olydemon
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Location: Olympia, Warshington. Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 Posts: 12508
Real Name: Oly Damon
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Really cool stuff there. I handled that Instructie (psst, dont tell the WAC). The 1893 was on the other side of that one. I actually almost thought the #350 tag on the M91 was a bt steep and maybe I shoulda just got the cheaper one there. Boy, am I glad I didnt...
_________________www.olydemon.com
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Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:30 pm |
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MosinZealot
Location: Tumwater/Lacey Joined: Sun Jul 8, 2012 Posts: 89
Real Name: Герой
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Was a good time finding all the loot at that show. Never seen anything like it there. Not that there were hundreds coming out of the wood work, but the 20 or so I saw there (and who knows how many more may have been walking around) sitting on tables was a lot for that show. Congrats to all the guys that made some acquisitions, especially of the Mosin nature.
_________________ I am a Mosin Nagant evangelist, and I am on a mission to convert YOU! Always looking for Non-Import marked Nagant revolvers and Mosin Nagant rifles! Contact me if you are willing to sell!
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Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:33 pm |
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Massivedesign
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Location: Olympia, WA Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 Posts: 38307
Real Name: Dan
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Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:41 pm |
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kf7mjf
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Location: Olympia Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 Posts: 16044
Real Name: Steve
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Brad.
You suck monkey cock.
That is all.
_________________ "I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said." - William Buckley, Jr.
"...steam, artillery and revolvers give to civilized man an irresistible power." -Perry Collins
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Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:08 pm |
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usrifle
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Location: RENTON Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 Posts: 20771
Real Name: John
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Mosin Zealot...The Tang dates are scrubbed, it's not uncommon. Does the "B" barrel have Leige proofs?
_________________ Mr. Q wrote: so basically, if you have to smoke some asshole, make sure they become fertilizer and then Bounce? got it.
Guntrader wrote: Huh, maybe I was an asshole.
NRA Member/RSO SAF 5 Year Donor GOA Member
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Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:47 pm |
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MosinZealot
Location: Tumwater/Lacey Joined: Sun Jul 8, 2012 Posts: 89
Real Name: Герой
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No Leige proofs. I don't know as I have ever seen or recall seeing a Finn Mosin that had a scrubbed tang. I think the source of the white spot on the tang was an oil spot on the brass shim it sat on for years and years. I think it just faded the bluing in that spot. There doesn't appear to be otherwise prevalent evidence that it was scrubbed. No apparent sanding or file marks. At any rate, it's not stamped. It has been hypothesized on another site it could be an early receiver with no stamp, but I guess it can be chalked up to another Mosin mystery anyways.
But the 1943 Izhevsk doesn't have a tang stamp. I hear that's not uncommon for war time rifles to not get stamped, or have partial date stamps on them. It is sure roughly machined, but I think history has already informed us why they were in such a hurry.
_________________ I am a Mosin Nagant evangelist, and I am on a mission to convert YOU! Always looking for Non-Import marked Nagant revolvers and Mosin Nagant rifles! Contact me if you are willing to sell!
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Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:15 pm |
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usrifle
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Location: RENTON Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 Posts: 20771
Real Name: John
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I assume you are talking about Ted's site? I have had a few with scrubbed tangs, they have all been Finn's or Foreign variations of Russian made Mosin's. A couple of nice Mosin acquisitions either way.
_________________ Mr. Q wrote: so basically, if you have to smoke some asshole, make sure they become fertilizer and then Bounce? got it.
Guntrader wrote: Huh, maybe I was an asshole.
NRA Member/RSO SAF 5 Year Donor GOA Member
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Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:35 pm |
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MosinZealot
Location: Tumwater/Lacey Joined: Sun Jul 8, 2012 Posts: 89
Real Name: Герой
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Yes. I see you are a member there too. I would have expected to see scrubbed tangs from the Balkans more than I'd of expected it from the Finns. I haven't yet acquired any other foreign made 91/30s, just captured Russian rifles. I'm still surprised though at how many Mosins moved on Saturday. I wonder how it was on Sunday.
_________________ I am a Mosin Nagant evangelist, and I am on a mission to convert YOU! Always looking for Non-Import marked Nagant revolvers and Mosin Nagant rifles! Contact me if you are willing to sell!
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Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:12 pm |
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usrifle
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Location: RENTON Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 Posts: 20771
Real Name: John
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MosinZealot wrote: Yes. I see you are a member there too. I would have expected to see scrubbed tangs from the Balkans more than I'd of expected it from the Finns. I haven't yet acquired any other foreign made 91/30s, just captured Russian rifles. I'm still surprised though at how many Mosins moved on Saturday. I wonder how it was on Sunday. I really used to be into the Mosin thing, and i have pretty much had them all, but i faded out a couple years ago. This thread got me interested enough to dredge up some old pics, but my "Mosinitis" is pretty much gone. I haven't been on Ted's site or Gunboards in several years, just kinda moved on. I still like 'em, but not like it used to be. I have some pics of Couple original configuration Dragoons i had around somewhere, i'll see if i can find them to add to the ref's.
_________________ Mr. Q wrote: so basically, if you have to smoke some asshole, make sure they become fertilizer and then Bounce? got it.
Guntrader wrote: Huh, maybe I was an asshole.
NRA Member/RSO SAF 5 Year Donor GOA Member
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Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:23 am |
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RENCORP
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Location: East of Japan, not by much. Joined: Fri Jun 3, 2011 Posts: 12990
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Well, if you want to move on what appears to be worthless space wasters in your life, just give me a call. I will take a hit for the team, just for you. Pass 'em on to me ! They will be going to a good home.
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Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:38 am |
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usrifle
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Location: RENTON Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 Posts: 20771
Real Name: John
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RENCORP wrote: Well, if you want to move on what appears to be worthless space wasters in your life, just give me a call. I will take a hit for the team, just for you. Pass 'em on to me ! They will be going to a good home. Oh no, the one's i have left aren't worthless space waster's by any means....and they have a good home right here with me. No Finn's for sale here Gents, while i'm not"'all consumed" by them anymore, i do still like 'em.
_________________ Mr. Q wrote: so basically, if you have to smoke some asshole, make sure they become fertilizer and then Bounce? got it.
Guntrader wrote: Huh, maybe I was an asshole.
NRA Member/RSO SAF 5 Year Donor GOA Member
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Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:09 pm |
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MosinZealot
Location: Tumwater/Lacey Joined: Sun Jul 8, 2012 Posts: 89
Real Name: Герой
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Well, the Finn Mosins are pretty well known for being excellent shooters, especially the ones with Finn barrels on them. It's so hard not to like a Finn Mosin. But now, for your consideration, is one that I consider to be the holy grail, crown jewel of my collection. While it's not a Mosin, it is a piece that is highly sought after by collectors, and even harder to find. I was fortunate enough to find one on a trader forum, and work out a deal with the seller. It's not the most incredible example, but an example nonetheless. So for those that don't know, a little backround on this rifle. The 1895 Winchester rifle began production at Winchester in 1895. It was made in quite a few different calibers, .30-03, .30-06, .30-40 Krag, and .405 Winchester to name some of the more popular cartridges. There were some made in .303 British, and most surprisingly 7.62x54R. The contract for Imperial Russia for these rifles between 1915 and 1917 was made to the tune of near 300,000. At the same time, Remington and New England Westinghouse were also producing M91 rifles for the Russians, as well as ammo, and M91 bayonets. These M91s were superior quality than anything the Russians ever made, but Russian inspectors insisted there were issues with them. When the Germans started moving east, and the civil war and revolution began in Russia, the Russians decided they were going to stop paying for all production of 1895s and M91s since they had much bigger things to worry about. The 1895s that made it to Russia could have been used during WWI, may have been captured, sold or otherwise used by other countries. I have heard there were some that went through the Balkan countries, but have never seen any examples of such rifles. The same with Finland. Never seen an [SA] marked 1895. At any rate, the Russians did send some 1895s to Spain for the Spanish Civil War 1936-1939. This example, happened to make it to Russia, and then was sent as aid to Spain by the Soviets. The telltale mark on this rifle that it went to Spain is the MP8 cartouche on the stock in the flaming bomb. That is a known SCW mark. One of my next objectives, is finding a bayonet for it! They are hard to find too, and not cheap either.
_________________ I am a Mosin Nagant evangelist, and I am on a mission to convert YOU! Always looking for Non-Import marked Nagant revolvers and Mosin Nagant rifles! Contact me if you are willing to sell!
Last edited by MosinZealot on Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:32 pm |
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Mohawk13
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Location: Logan, Utah Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 Posts: 4199
Real Name: Pete
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Great Write up Brad. For certain a hard piece to find. I did see a picture of a Gun Show in Finland, and one Gentleman had two on the table. No write up on them, as they did not seem interesting enough to him .... The Russian Contract was the largest number of 1895's Made By Winchester...Odd that more have not surfaced..Has to be a warehouse some where full of these...
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Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:54 pm |
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