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 Chey Tac USA, Chey Tac Rifles, EDM Arms, Knesek... 
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Thor Global defense, RND Edge... a whole host of manufacturers and developers... reading about CheyTac anything is like watching a soap opera. I'm still unsure about the distinctions, and ownership.

The M200 system was designed apparently by Bill Richie of EDM; from there collaborations, law suits, and variations on the name Chey Tac or Cheytac have my head spinning.

You probably know about the Chey Tac M200 Intervention (if you weren't in DEVGRU or SEAL Team VI) from the movie "Shooter" or playing video games or gun-geeking out...maybe you heard about the then-record breaking 1.5 kilometer confirmed sniper kills of recent yore...

I believe the Intervention is still owned by Chey Tac USA (who's new owner recently stepped into some shit revolving around stolen valor, claiming to be a Green Beret https://www.ammoland.com/2021/06/stolen ... een-beret/ )

Chey Tac USA M200 Intervention:

Image

These are $11-12,000.00 rifles and "all sales are final" so...


Anyway... a competing system by Thor Global is chambered in .408ct and uses a Krieger barrel.

Image

These look nearly identical and the similarity of the company names and use of the same ammo(?) makes for a confusing story.

Here is the link to the Chey Tac Rifle (tm) History web page that gives some insights, but mostly hints, to the story

https://thorgdg.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... -FDE-1.jpg

I think CheyTac Rifle (tm) must be owned by Thor GDG (?)

David Cambell's Chey Tac USA is never mentioned in that history.

To conclude:

I have always admired the M200 Intervention and have one 60 y.o. slightly used kidney available for trade.

The new Cheytac USA owner seems to be a pretentious lout.

More than a few companies are involved in developing and manufacturing variants and have been busily suing each other for the privilege.

The .408ct with a 419gr projectile is pretty freakishly cool.

gratuitous video from Chey Tac USA



Links to their media page with links to the movie and video game and more.

https://cheytac.com/media/

link to Thor Global Defense Group and their version of Bill Richies "Windrunner"

Image

(which, even though the bipod attaches under the barrel and doesn't have the extreme lethality- enhancing barrel shroud, still qualifies for the aforementioned kidney exchange) and all of their other cool-ass rifles)

Edit: BTW, Thor DGD makes pistols, machine guns and a whole slew of cool shite

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"The said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." ~ Samuel Adams

“A return to First Principles in a Republic is sometimes caused by simple virtues of a single man. His good example has such an influence that the good men strive to imitate him, and the wicked are ashamed to lead a life so contrary to his example. Before all else, be armed!” ~ Niccolo Machiavelli

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FJB


Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:13 am
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The original post I've seen about this was from Chris Byrne at https://anarchangel.blogspot.com in 2010 about the Ultimate Weapons Discovery channel top 10 sniper rifles or whatever.

https://anarchangel.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... apons.html

Quote:
Number One, the CheyTac Intervention M200 LRSS

Ooooh boy... I have real problems with this one.

Ok, the rifle is an excellent rifle, no doubt... but for one thing, it isn't actually a CheyTac. CheyTac doesn't make their own rifles, it's actually an EDM Windrunner sold under CheyTacs private label.

The rifle is guaranteed sub MOA to 2000 meters when using their ammo. There is no other company that will make that claim. It can generally achieve under 1.5 MOA to 3000 meters, if wind conditions allow it.

There's a reason for that. The rifle basically consists of a very long, very heavy barrel, bolted into solid machined aluminum and steel, with a trigger, handgrip, and a buttpad grafted on. EVERYTHING on this rifle is precision machined metal.

The .408 is an excellent chambering. It is possibly the most ballistically efficient extreme range chambering there is (almost certainly the most efficient relatively widely available chambering. There are some rare wildcats which may be better); and with the high BC bullets at high velocity that it shoots, it is more accurate, and carries more energy out to 2500 yards than a .50bmg.

To my knowledge, there is no regular production big bore rifle that is capable of greater accuracy at range, or greater range at 1moa accuracy, than the CheyTac; or rather, the EDM windrunner in .408 CheyTac.

The ratings... again I see no reason why the portability of this 53" long 31lb rifle should be anything other than a 1 or a 2, especially when they gave rifles with identical measurements lower ratings (though it does take down for transport). I see no reason why the rate of fire should be a 3 when they gave a semi-auto .308 a 3, and all the other big bore bolties a 2.

The show made a big deal out of how CheyTac offered a fully integrated system, with specially selected optics, accessories, ammunition, a ballistic calculator etc... But in reality, you can do that with any weapons system. This isn't really an inherent advantage to CheyTac.

My real problem though, is CheyTac the company, and the history of the weapon.

The CheyTac has been tested, and rejected, by every major special operations force in the world except Poland and Turkey (the only acknowledged military customers); not because it isn't an excellent weapon, but because it isn't a reliable company for military supply.

That doesn't mean there aren't CheyTac rifles out there in service; but they aren't a standard issue or standard procurement item.

As I said, CheyTac doesn't manufacture their own weapons. The CheyTac rifle is actually an EDM windrunner. EDM is basically one guy in Utah, Bill Ritchie. As of late 2009, I believe that EDM has severed their relationship with CheyTac, and I don't know who is currently manufacturing the rifle for CheyTac, if anyone. There are a couple other manufacturers who have licensed the design however, and of course CheyTac has a license for their own specific variant. Also, EDM is still making the windrunner, including variants in .408 CheyTac.

CheyTac also doesn't manufacture their own bullets for their proprietary chambering, they WERE made by Lost River Ballistic Technologies, which was a 2 man company before they recently folded. I don't know who CheyTac has manufacturing their bullets now, but last I heard they were still loading from their existing stock of lost river bullets.

CheyTac themselves employ about a dozen ... maybe.... because at times it has been reported they have been up to over 50 people, and at times have been two people... The "about a dozen" is speculation based on people who have recently done business with them.

What I can confirm, is that over the last 10 years, they have employed, and then either terminated, or had leave on them, over a dozen highly respected people from the long range shooting community; most of whom say they would never do business with the company again.

At one point, they took the position that they were not going to sell their "system" to civilians. That caused massive backlash and they quickly backpedaled.

Overall, CheyTac has a horrible reputation in the long range shooting community for poor customer service, and extremely long delays in delivery; with orders frequently taking over a year to deliver.

I personally have never dealt with the company (though I have shot a Windrunner in .408 and quite liked it), so I can't directly confirm the above; but these reports come from people I trust.

There is simply no way that a large military could deploy the CheyTac system; because it couldn't be supplied. There couldn't be enough rifles made, nor enough ammo made, to do so.

I understand there are a few dozen CheyTac rifles out there in JSOC land, but I haven't been able to confirm any use in action, or any known confirmed kills (I have unconfirmed reports, but nothing I can count on).

Based on this history, there is no way I could put this rifle on any top ten or ultimate kind of list.


It sounds like they wanted to make an AI "2 guys in a shed story" but it went terribly wrong rather than there AI was at where it was "fake it till you make it."

At the end of the day I think what really sank it is the requirements of the .408 cartdige only suits itself for long range benchrest nerds rather than the actual requirements for an anti-personel vs. anti-material rifle.

The .408 positions itself as an anti personnel cartridge, but the requirements for a rifle that can do the accuracy and recoil requirements asks for 31lb weapon which is equal to that of an m107. or Tac-50 rifle, with no currently known AP incendiary rounds which are crucial for the Anti Material role of bunkers and ordinance disposal capabilities.

a 300wm or .338 asks for a 15lb weapon system like a Remington MSR or L85 capable of going 1600m and much more practical to deploy.

So in essence you are deploying an anti material rifle with no anti-material capabilities to hit something 1000m further for twice the weight, and can only hit humans.

Not sure if that's the best sales pitch.


Last edited by bubblewhip on Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:41 am
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icon_eek must have. :bow:

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Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:49 am
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Then you'll probably want to book-end your collection with a Cadex Defense "Shadow".

Image

Available chambered in .375 EnABELR and .375 or .408ct

_________________
“Finding ‘common ground’ with the thinking of evil men is a fool’s errand” ~ Herschel Smith

"The said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." ~ Samuel Adams

“A return to First Principles in a Republic is sometimes caused by simple virtues of a single man. His good example has such an influence that the good men strive to imitate him, and the wicked are ashamed to lead a life so contrary to his example. Before all else, be armed!” ~ Niccolo Machiavelli

Láodòng zhèng zhūwèi zìyóu

FJB


Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:39 pm
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Back in the day, I was friends with Bill Richie. He'd front me Windrunners for sale, in an attempt to really get his company off the ground. I sold about a dozen of them. They were high margin, but slow selling. I also found that they were less than an engineering marvel, but probably OK for the day.

He was a heck of a nice guy, though.


Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:08 pm
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