Before bump triggers, the method to do this was to hang a finger in a belt loop of ones pants and push forward on the AK or other platform. That did the same thing these triggers did and it worked just fine for me. A person could even do it without the finger by getting good at just the forward pressure as the rifle recoiled back. Are they going to ban that method to? Guess we better ban peoples fingers.
You know the French actually used to do exactly that to English Longbowmen? Catch one, lop his middle finger off so he couldn't nock an arrow again... hence the presentation of middle finger in battle that evolved into the One Finger Salute we all know and love today.
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Wed May 25, 2022 6:32 pm
PW45
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Location: Maple Valley Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 Posts: 845
Real Name: PW
Very simple without fancy expensive devices and can be done from the shoulder as well, not against triggers but showing just how ridiculous it is to be demonizing bump fire like devices.
Can't compare the FRT to any bump stock or fingering device. they are damn near full auto. you can fire accurately from the shoulder which is impossible with the belt loop trick or even bump stock
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Thu May 26, 2022 9:13 am
MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 52035
Real Name: Steve
Sounds like he had bigger issues than the FRT trigger's, they just added that to the pile of his issues. Is it bullshit? Sure....but he had a whole lot of other issues that attracted the attention of the ATF beyond those.
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Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:21 pm
RocketScott
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Location: Kentucky Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 Posts: 11088
The conversion devices and forced reset triggers found in the home were the following:
One PTR Industries, Inc., model PTR 9, 9x19mm caliber firearm bearing serial number 9MC010480 with one magazine and an altered HK MP5-type machinegun trigger housing installed
38 “switch-type” Glock machinegun conversion devices bearing a counterfeit Glock logo
Three Rare Breed FRT-15 forced reset triggers designed to allow drop-in installation into AR-15 type firearms, with no serial number
One Tommy Triggers FRT-15-3MD forced reset trigger designed to allow drop-in installation into AR-15-type firearms, with no serial number
One Imperial Arms Co., model EFFEN 90, 5.7x28mm caliber firearm bearing serial number HXX37 with one magazine
One PTR Industries, Inc., model PTR 9, 9x19mm caliber firearm bearing serial number 9MK001951 with a collapsible shoulder stock, thread protector, electronic sight, and forward grip, and with one magazine
One Sig Sauer, model MPX, 9x19mm caliber firearm bearing serial number 62B058947 with an electronic sight, a forward grip, and a Maxim Defense collapsible shoulder stock, and with one magazine
One Intratec, model Tec-9, 9x19mm caliber firearm bearing serial number 54601, with a secondary forward grip and a synthetic sling
Two black firearms silencers with no markings
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Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:34 am
Massivedesign
Site Admin
Location: Olympia, WA Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 Posts: 38307
Real Name: Dan
Nobody is saying that the guy is innocent on all charges … but keep the point of this thread in mind, that the ATF has single-handedly decided to ignore the legal definition of a machine gun, and they are now charging people for possession of the forced reset trigger.
_________________ “Finding ‘common ground’ with the thinking of evil men is a fool’s errand” ~ Herschel Smith
"The said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." ~ Samuel Adams
“A return to First Principles in a Republic is sometimes caused by simple virtues of a single man. His good example has such an influence that the good men strive to imitate him, and the wicked are ashamed to lead a life so contrary to his example. Before all else, be armed!” ~ Niccolo Machiavelli
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FJB
Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:07 am
scrid2000
Site Supporter
Location: Pierce County Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 Posts: 1989
Real Name: Shane
Alright, able to give this a quick look-over on my lunch break. Looks like the guy had a lot more potentially illegal stuff than I originally assumed (I'll have to remember this next time I get after someone for just reading the headline). I've broken the list they gave into groups based on likely illegal, contested legality, more information needed, and likely legal:
Likely illegal 38 “switch-type” Glock machinegun conversion devices bearing a counterfeit Glock logo Probably not much defense here. If I had to guess how he got caught, it would be that he bought some or all of these from a honeypot. Side note: why the heck would you have 38 of these? One PTR Industries, Inc., model PTR 9, 9x19mm caliber firearm bearing serial number 9MK001951 with a collapsible shoulder stock, thread protector, electronic sight, and forward grip, and with one magazine If the article is truthful and it actually has a stock and not a brace, and a VFG rather than an AFG, that would be an SBR or an AOW. One Sig Sauer, model MPX, 9x19mm caliber firearm bearing serial number 62B058947 with an electronic sight, a forward grip, and a Maxim Defense collapsible shoulder stock, and with one magazine I can't tell if that is a brace or a stock. Assuming the reporting is correct, it would be an illegal SBR or AOW. Two black firearms silencers with no markings No markings mean those are illegal silencers.
Legality contested, at least in part Three Rare Breed FRT-15 forced reset triggers designed to allow drop-in installation into AR-15 type firearms, with no serial number It's not determined yet if the FRT is a machinegun; if it's not, the absence of a serial wouldn't make the slightest difference. One Tommy Triggers FRT-15-3MD forced reset trigger designed to allow drop-in installation into AR-15-type firearms, with no serial number Same as above.
More information needed One PTR Industries, Inc., model PTR 9, 9x19mm caliber firearm bearing serial number 9MC010480 with one magazine and an altered HK MP5-type machinegun trigger housing installed This doesn't specify if the modified trigger housing is housing a full auto trigger pack. In fact, "modified" makes me think he's running the HK housing on his semiauto PTR. Side note: who pays the money for full auto MP5 parts and puts them on a PTR? Lame. One Intratec, model Tec-9, 9x19mm caliber firearm bearing serial number 54601, with a secondary forward grip and a synthetic sling Assuming it was an AFG, that would be legal. A quick google search shows most of the forward grips for a Tec9 are AFGs.
Likely legal: One Imperial Arms Co., model EFFEN 90, 5.7x28mm caliber firearm bearing serial number HXX37 with one magazine
_________________ Posts not legal advice.
Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:38 pm
hartcreek
Location: Union Gap Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 Posts: 1722
Real Name: Randall Knapp
The guy is basically screwed so of course the ATF is going to dump all the charges that they can and then they will have a presidence once he is convicted.
Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:26 am
jukk0u
Site Supporter
Location: Lynnwood and at large Joined: Wed May 1, 2013 Posts: 21268
Real Name: Vick Lagina
_________________ “Finding ‘common ground’ with the thinking of evil men is a fool’s errand” ~ Herschel Smith
"The said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." ~ Samuel Adams
“A return to First Principles in a Republic is sometimes caused by simple virtues of a single man. His good example has such an influence that the good men strive to imitate him, and the wicked are ashamed to lead a life so contrary to his example. Before all else, be armed!” ~ Niccolo Machiavelli
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FJB
Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:54 pm
MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 52035
Real Name: Steve
^ Skip to 9:10 at that link if you want to know whether Rare Breed has turned over their customer list . . . short answer is "no" but they do have some shipping info.
^ Also in that video is information about a newly-filed court case to fight the ATF, including a "call to action" to donate to NAGR (National Association for Gun Rights). Part of your donation will be used to fund your NAGR membership, and they will be asking the court for an injunction to protect NAGR members, similar to what has happened in other cases for the pistol brace rule.
In short: If you own a Rare Breed trigger, you may want to donate. And if you don't own a Rare Breed trigger, please donate anyhow!
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