We've had some scattered discussion on the "compact" pistol red dots, but I'm thinking that we can consolidate some of it here.

I'm talking about the sights that fit the Shield RMSc footprint, such as the Holosun HS507K and a number of others. These are for smaller guns like the Sig P322, Sig P365, Springfield Hellcat, and a number of others.

I had the P365 carry gun's slide milled to accept one of these sights. I'm a bit of a Holosun whore, so I started out with the HS507K; that circle-dot is almost the perfect reticle, in my opinion, for a carry gun. Well, I had issues because each battery only lasted 2-3 months and I wasn't happy with that; the same thing happened with a replacement sight that Holosun sent me. I finally gave up on a red dot on my carry gun, took it off, and sold it. There is more of a discussion here:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=121042.

^ In that thread, I mentioned that I didn't find reports on the web of other people having battery issues with the HS507K. However, I searched again recently, and found a number of other people having the same issue.

Well, fast forward some months, and I decided to give a red dot another try on my carry gun. I had gotten a good deal on some Riton MPRD 2 sights, so I put one of those on the P365. This sight is auto-everything; there are no manual controls except to sight it in. It's auto-on/off, and auto-brightness. I've had it on for about a month and it has worked fine with one glaring (ironic pun intended) exception: When I'm in a dark area, the dot is too dim for me to see, and definitely too dim to see against a bright target. I have one of these sights on a Sig P322 also (a target gun), and I don't have any complaints for that application . . . but for self-defense, I need that dot to be brighter when I'm in the dark.
We had some discussion on P322 sights here: viewtopic.php?f=40&t=137059.

Today I started the next chapter. After watching a couple of YouTube video reviews, I took off the Riton and installed a Cyelee CAT sight. This one is auto-on/off (aka "shake awake") as well, but it has manual brightness control so I can just leave it on a bright setting. (I have it on setting 8 at the moment.) Yeah, this is a "cheap Amazon sight," but I'm going to give it a chance. I moved the Riton over to my Springfield Hellcat, which for the moment anyhow is just a range toy.

The Cyelee is a little wider than the Riton in the area of the window, but I don't think it's an issue.

Here's a pic with the P365+Cyelee (on the left) and the Hellcat+Riton (on the right):



The Cyelee has some neat little fiberoptic sights built into it:



But . . . notice that they are actually up quite high, higher than the stock rear sight. This means that if you use the Cyelee rear sight, you're going to be shooting a little high -- probably not a big deal at self-defense distances, but still not ideal. See how the red dot is up higher than the irons?



Here's the Riton on the Hellcat. The Hellcat sights are tall enough, or the Riton low enough, that you can actually use the original irons and they'll line up with the dot:



Well, that's where I'm at . . . we'll see how this Cyelee works on the carry P365, and I'll report back.

Any other input or experiences on sights that fit the RMSc footprint . . . please feel free to post your thoughts in this thread.

My experiences with 2 Swampfox RDS (a Justice and a Liberty), one of which is on the pistol I now carry everyday, would lead me to believe the Sentinel would be an outstanding choice for the RMSc footprint:
https://www.swampfoxoptics.com/sentinel#specification

I would not want those fiber optic rears that're on the back of that Ceelee, I'd want to be able to choose my BUIS, both for proper height and personal preference.

I didn't know the compact Holosun's were prone to battery issues. Wierd.

God himself could not have designed better self defense iron sights than the hellcat comes with. Take that dot off there you heathen!

And the higher rear irons on the cyelee will make you shoot high, not low. Impact follows adjustment on the rear sight.

Now that’s enough bashing a guy who’s only ever been supportive of me on everything, literally, ever. Except kf7, but I may have taken that one too far.

Hopefully the cyelee doesn’t kill batteries and works out. I have a couple hs507k optics I’ve never changed the battery on that are still kicking. Shame the spotty qc couldn’t deliver you a good optic.

I got a great deal on a SIG 365XL slide with included Romeo Zero.
Worked for over two years, with one battery change (not because it ran out, preventative maintenance).
Never worried about the plastic lens, sure it got some surface scratches, but you look through a dot sight, not at the window. Go look at how dirty/scratched/etc. your car windshield is sometime, bet you really didn't notice it when driving...

For $138.99, it's a helluva deal.
If you want glass lens and more technology, Romeo Zero Elite for $182.00 (3 moa dot) or $209.99 (2 MOA Red Dot / 32 MOA Circle). Again, a great deal.

Yeah, the Hellcat sights are pretty damned awesome . . . I love them.



Yep, I fucked that up. Actual impact is where the dot is, which is higher than the iron sights. I've edited my post.

In addition to a Swampfox 1-4x and 6-24x scopes, I have a Liberty on my G17 that hasn't had an issue.

I had a Sentinel on my G43x. Ordered it in May '22. December '22 it was RMA'd. It developed a "teenager mode" as I call it. The 'Shake Awake' wouldn't activate on the draw, I had to smack the side of the slide for it to turn on. Got my replacement from Swampfox in January (I wasn't in a big hurry sending it back).

I stuck the Sentinel on my backup 43x, I replaced it with a SIG Romeo 0. OpticsPlanet had a sale going; I picked up another in FDE for my wife's other pistol for <$120. She only has one pistol that accepts RDS/etc; I'm trying to convert her to RDS but it's an expensive struggle, lol. I've been trying to get her to swap her G43 frame for the G48 frame and get those 6 extra rounds (z9 to S15 mags).

Isildur raises an interesting point. The shield rms was released in conjunction with the hellcat wasn’t it? Or was it the 365?

What is the grapevine saying about the shield sight? I know there were some dissenters posting conjecture about the plastic use in the shield’s construction, but now that we’re down the road from introduction are they holding up to use?

Without going to a SRO, which is probably way too big for a ultra compact/pocket carry, what other options exist?

The original Shield RMS is the oldest red dot, they began making them as an OEM for other companies.
They built Mini Red Dots for companies including JP Rifles (JPoint) & Trijicon’s REDDOT, marked under their own brands.
This was in 2006, so they've been making handgun sights for quite some time. Shield also has been making mil-spec electronic sights for the UK military since 2000.
In 2015, I was in the UK, and happened to be staying 20 miles for the Shield factory, and found them by chance.
I came back with two of the Shield RMS sights, which had just started production (S/N 4 & 5, btw).
My carry guns were a Kahr K9 & a Kahr MK9. I had the slides milled (that took some effort), mounted the dots and proceeded to put thousands of rounds downrange.
Never had a failure.

That said, I haven't been following the RMSc or other Shield products lately. I would guess that they are good to go, but they are expensive (Designed & built in the UK - no Chinesium!)

Needing a larger window to effectively use a dot sight is a fallacy. Window size has nothing to do with seeing the dot when you bring the handgun up to aim.

IF you can bring the handgun up to your eye with the iron sights level you will see the dot, every time.
Takes some training, for sure.
Too many people I talk to either quit using a dot sight or constantly complain that they "can't find the dot", because they are unwilling to take the time to train themselves to overcome their sloppy handgun presentation and training the eyes to always focus on the target and not waste time by trying to first focus on a front sight to "line up the dot" and then focusing on the target.

My latest competition (SIG P320) never had iron sights installed, iron sights are absolutely useless & distracting on a dot sight equipped competition handgun. IMHO.

This is from 2021 but has some good info:
https://www.optics-trade.eu/blog/red-dot-sights-made-outside-of-china-optics-trade-debates/

I agree. Just like getting used to iron sights, it takes practice for RDS. I was at a WPS class and a handful of participants had the same question- how do I get used to acquiring the dot w/ my new RDS? They danced around the answer - practice. Be consistent.

If people are doing drills like Haley's Venti 100 shot warm-up (whole or adapted), getting used to RDS is much easier. Point shooting drills. Things that help "standardize" aiming/addressing targets.

The biggest problem I have with RDS is the lint. Lint makes the dot illuminate the whole "glass."

I just blow it or brush it off once a day.

Isildur is right, all about refining the index. Good index=good sight aquisition/shooting, whether irons OR optic.

Same here, and that hasn't been an issue. I'm intrigued by the enclosed sights though, that might be the future.

Enclosed sights will still collect dirt / carbon on the front lens and lint etc. on the back lens.

True, they will still need to be blown regularly.



But since there's no way for the dust/lint to get on the emitter, the dot should still be projected cleanly; it's just a matter of keeping the glass clean enough to see it.