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 Garand Propaganda 
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The M1 Carbine is a pistol firing a pistol round. Higher end of pistol cartridge power range.
Has poor stopping power beyond 100 meters and is prone to mechanical issues when actually
used. That said, they have nice ergos, make a fine police or guard carbine, light, light ammo.
No good as a battle rifle. Rather have a Springfield. I can see arming a teen daughter or grandma
with one. Decent bayonet platform.

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Fri May 22, 2020 7:13 pm
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I would Trade 2 or 3 AR-15's for a nice M1 Garand anytime.

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Fri May 22, 2020 7:36 pm
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The AR platform is decent. My problem is with the 5.56x45.
I much prefer the Garand ergos and the rifle is barely heavy
enough to handle the 30-06 with respect to site picture recovery.
The 30-06 cartridge is a powerhouse at standard loads, able
to deliver more than 600 ft/lbs of energy at 900 yards. As a
defense weapon it fits my notion of avoiding close combat
and dry gulching an enemy at ranges well beyond the capability
of the mouse gun he will likely be carrying.

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"I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." - Robert Heinlein

Resistance to tyranny is always justified.


Fri May 22, 2020 7:59 pm
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Arisaka wrote:
corpsman wrote:
M1903A3, .22 military trainers, and the Rock Island .22 TCM 1911A2
That said, I am convinced the Garand is the best battle rifle ever made.
I despise the 5.56x45.

Another 1903A3 fan here. I also like the 1917 “American Enfield”, which carried most of the freight in WW1. 3 out of 4 rifles used by the AEF were 1917s. Never could figure out why the 1903 got all the credit.


My father in law has a 1917 that has been butchered. I have been keeping his guns safe as he can no longer shoot them anymore. The barrel is uncut and I plan to return it to its former glory. I just need to get his blessing to start the project.


Fri May 22, 2020 8:06 pm
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corpsman wrote:
The AR platform is decent. My problem is with the 5.56x45.
I much prefer the Garand ergos and the rifle is barely heavy
enough to handle the 30-06 with respect to site picture recovery.
The 30-06 cartridge is a powerhouse at standard loads, able
to deliver more than 600 ft/lbs of energy at 900 yards. As a
defense weapon it fits my notion of avoiding close combat
and dry gulching an enemy at ranges well beyond the capability
of the mouse gun he will likely be carrying.


I have full confidence in 5.56x45 doing the job "up close and personal" with good expanding ammo, but not at extended ranges.


Fri May 22, 2020 8:18 pm
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corpsman wrote:
Simple. Check out the rifle marksmanship at Belleau Wood, late 1918. Marines armed with Springfield 03s.
That episode alone made the reputation. That resulted in the Springfield being the primary issue rifle after
WW1 until about 1940 when the Garand was issued in sufficient numbers to become primary.


I have heard it was said the Germans brought a hunting rifle, the British brought a battle rifle, and the Americans brought a target rifle to the fight.


Fri May 22, 2020 8:28 pm
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This is a reiteration, several times in here and the SGN page. Docs determined that 500 ft/lbs of terminal energy is required to "reliably inflict a disabling wound". Most pistol rounds develop less than 500 ft/lbs at the muzzle. The 5.56x45 55gr FMJ drops below 500 ft/lbs at 230 meters. It remains accurate as far out as 700 meters. The 30-06 147gr FMJ drops below 500 ft/lbs somewhere between 900 and 1000 meters. For shooting beyond 700 meters I prefer the 03A3. One thing I have noticed is the evolution and wide range of quality of the AR platforms. With a Garand, things are very standard, and have been since about 1939 with the adoption of the second gas system. Then there is the issue of close up and personal. A stout platform with a bayonet is very effective as a pike. ARs tend to break. On Okinawa and in Korea the Garand proved to be very effective against human wave attacks. Three basic reasons. Human wave attacks usually occur over open ground, and usually initiate at ranges over 500 meters. This provides opportunity for effective suppressive fire. The 30-06 often was able to take out 2 or 3 enemy soldiers per round and at a high rate of fire that is made possible by the en-bloc clip loading system. A rifleman trained on the Garand can steadily reload his rifle in 2 seconds, from open bolt to in battery. Magazine retention is a much bigger issue than it is with clip recovery. Spare empty clips in a large number can be carried with little weight or space penalty. I readily admit that the AR in 5.56 is effective for home defense, CQB (I can not imagine needing to do that as an old and sane fart) and ambushes. A lot of guys collect Garands, most do not shoot them much. History has a powerful attraction for a lot of people. Thing is, very few learn the Garand manual of arms. The manual of arms is the key to employing the Garand as an excellent battle rifle.That information can be found on old Army training films on YouTube. I once watched an AR blow 3 holes clean through a 7/8' chunk of A500. It was a .300 WinMag.

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Resistance to tyranny is always justified.


Fri May 22, 2020 9:46 pm
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When I was in Jordan in 1995 we were shooting at 55 gallon drums at 800 meters with M16A2s. We were hitting two out of three shots. My thought at the time was it was not doing much in the damage department if it was a human.


Fri May 22, 2020 10:53 pm
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Last edited by Guntrader on Sat May 23, 2020 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri May 22, 2020 11:15 pm
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Last edited by Bruce556 on Sat May 23, 2020 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri May 22, 2020 11:21 pm
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Last edited by Guntrader on Sat May 23, 2020 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri May 22, 2020 11:27 pm
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I think we may have strayed from the path of Mr. Garand, and his invention of the greatest battle implement ever devised.


Fri May 22, 2020 11:46 pm
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Want to buy one?

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Sat May 23, 2020 12:25 am
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How much?


Sat May 23, 2020 12:38 am
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Well, how much?

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"I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." - Robert Heinlein

Resistance to tyranny is always justified.


Mon May 25, 2020 12:50 pm
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