Yeah I understand what he's saying, it's almost impossible to not do it with a red dot.

Humans don't see in frames but it might be the best way to refer to what you see in your head when you recall that last sight picture.

In a defensive scenario, your probably better off concentrating on what your attacker is doing rather than how you would score if instead of a defensive scenario it was a shooting competition. That being said, you might get proficient enough that there is actually no effort involved in shot calling. Most people can tell when they've mistyped a key on a keyboard almost before they even do it and I imagine that's what happens for most messed up shots.

The fastest ways to speed up your shooting are:
1) stop all unnecessary movement
2) start sooner
If you skip these steps, no amount of speeding up your trigger with mental "go faster!' Commands will work repeatably. Since it is physically very difficult to work a trigger faster than muzzle flip, a better strategy for improvement is to manage recoil. This has the added benefit of moving your sights less, allowing you to align/call your shots more quickly.

One thing I read that was interesting (for #2), "early beats fast every time"

Having a hard time keeping up with the thread today, work has been pretty busy. This is very interesting thinking on recoil control. On revos I am using a thumb over thumb crush grip. Are there any specific grip modifications recommended to help with recoil control?

I've seen on pistol grip a lot of folks cant their support hand down toward the ground prior to wrapping their fingers around the strong hand. This also activates infrequently used muscles in the forearm. Is that on the right track with this?

The bottom front of the grip is the mechanical point where you counteract muzzle rise. Whichever way you apply sufficient force at this point works. For semiautos, most people find the the 45 degree cant of their support fingers forces their support wrist into "locking" position, which means that front bottom grip moves forward and up least during recoil.
Others find the 70/30, 60/40, or (my favorite) 100/100 crush grips work. Like all things in shooting perf, depends on the particular gun, and shooter. There is no "one size fits all".
Physics is physics however. Get weapon hand high on bore axis, and support hand sufficiently counteracting muzzle rise, then press trigger while *not* moving the sights.
Simple.
Not easy.

You're correct, one class will not an expert make...but give points to ponder and self assessments.

Your best asset is time. A good instructor can teach such a class without students firing a round. To start correct neuro pathways in the brain for learning, go painfully slow to assure proper technique. If you feel a mistake was made, stop immediately and restart. You're training your brain to do something a bit new, don't rush it.

From your posts, you come across as a very perceptive person just don't over think it. You're on the right path.

Remember, it took you this long to learn the habits you have. It is going to take awhile, with mindful practice, to learn the new ones. Knowing this going in helps to hold off the despair about your progress a little longer.

a S.I.R.T. pro training pistol (two lasers) will help you with this. works best with an observer (or video). the red laser shows when you take up/release slack. the green laser shows trigger break.

That's a good idea as have used them in training courses in the past. I'll browse around on the interwebs to see what they're going for.
Been working on getting my draw par times down in dry fire training as well as follow-through.

Off to the range today for live fire practice. Appreciate all the input and feedback from all on this thread.

Thanks quantsuff. Did some experimentation at the range Friday with differing levels of two-handed crush grip with my 627 n-frame revo, ranging from loose/ineffective support hand grip to a heavy crush grip. I found a very noticeable impact on muzzle rise. The fairly uncontrolled muzzle rise with weak/ineffective support hand grip was quite noticeable making it more challenging to visually follow the rise and fall of the front sight. Transitioning to a tight crush grip with the support hand the muzzle rise was perhaps half of the ineffective support hand grip making it far easier to follow the front sight in recoil and back to sight alignment. Also did some live-fire comparisons on PPQ 9mm pistol that I'm able to control recoil much more effectively with two-handed crush grip than the two-handed thumbs forward grip that I've traditionally used on semi-autos. This was another breakthrough for me. Getting better at front sight tracking through the shot break and now seeing more success at controlling muzzle rise/recoil impulse through tight crush grip. I'll need to make forming a solid crush grip on draw stroke a major focus in dry fire for consistency in training.

A lot of the range session was also dedicated to practicing front sight follow-through both by re-acquiring the sight & staging trigger after the last shot as well as just a simple re-acquisition of the front sight without staging trigger as suggested in my last training course and also as discussed by Cerberus above. Starting to form muscle memory there and looking forward to further dry-fire and range practice.

Also was doing further practice with distance change-up drills at 7 and 15 yards for changes in front sight focus, trigger staging, and shooting cadence at various distances and target sizes:
- Rapid acquisition with quick and dirty front sight picture up close on 7 yd IPSC target chest A zone (less than perfect sight picture still yields reasonable accuracy)
- Slightly slower cadence with more front sight focus on 7 yd IPSC target head shot
- Comparable cadence and front sight focus on transitioning to 15 yd IPSC target chest A zone
- Even slower cadence with fairly intense front sight focus and trigger staging for 15 yd IPSC target head shot

Gradually learning how to transition shooting cadence and front sight focus for varying distances and/or target sizes.

It's pretty cool to be an intermediate level shooter. Lots of rapid progress to be made. Reminds me of my learning curve as an alpine skier. Given proper instruction/guidance, it's possible to make regular breakthroughs and rapid progress in technique at this stage of learning.

Thank you all for feedback this has been a really enlightening thread. Signing up for two additional courses coming up in May
- Defensive small gun. Will take class with Smith j-frame with heavy focus on pocket carry draws and presentation
- Pistol Skills Development. Will take class with Smith PC627. Shooting on the move, shooting on multiple targets. Applicable to either carry or competition.

I'll post up another discussion thread after those courses for any interesting new learnings.