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old11bravo
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Location: Everett Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 Posts: 3421
Real Name: Ron
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There have been some recent introductions to the AR pistol "brace" market that almost make getting a stamp for an SBR obsolete, and owning an AR pistol much more appealing.
These new AR pistol "braces" come very close to competing with any SBR stock out there in both comfort, weight, style and adjustability for LOP. The SBA3 is an example that comes foremost to mind when I ponder this. The SBA3 can be had for anywhere between $120-$150. I think these advanced design "braces" keep getting better each time a new version comes out. Some of the recent "brace" designs are so innovative and similar to an AR stock that it leaves me scratching my head in wonder and amazement that it would have been approved by the ATF. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining at all. These same "braces" also have me wondering why I would ever want to bother with the long wait and the money currently necessary to obtain a stamp for an SBR.
There are also many EDC or "carry" advantages to consider by owning an AR that is categorized as a "pistol" as opposed to owning one categorized as an SBR.
I am unsure why anyone would waste time and money for a stamp anymore with the advent of the newer innovative "braces" like these.
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Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:56 am |
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MyNameIs940
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Location: Kirkland Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 Posts: 820
Real Name: Shawn
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The ATF ruling on the braces is if you build one to get away from nfa laws it’s a felony. If you build it as a pistol then happen to shoulder it you’re fine.
I’m building a few sbrs because of that and the atf May change their mind again. Also the sba3 doesn’t have a letter from the atf last I heard, they combined two letters from previous braces sent it to make it seem like theirs is ok.
Form 1s right now are coming back in 90-100 days which i think is worth the wait for the peace of mind.
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Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:33 am |
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OhShoot!
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Location: Bellingham Canada Joined: Thu Jan 3, 2013 Posts: 4998
Real Name: Josheewa
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MyNameIs940 wrote: The ATF ruling on the braces is if you build one to get away from nfa laws it’s a felony. How could they prove intent on this allegation unless you were to post your intent clearly on an online forum?
_________________ It must be frustrating always being the smartest person in the room.-Jagerbomber35
Divided we fall.
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Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:04 am |
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Powderman
Location: WA State Joined: Fri Feb 8, 2013 Posts: 656
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MyNameIs940 wrote: The ATF ruling on the braces is if you build one to get away from nfa laws it’s a felony. If you build it as a pistol then happen to shoulder it you’re fine.
I’m building a few sbrs because of that and the atf May change their mind again. Also the sba3 doesn’t have a letter from the atf last I heard, they combined two letters from previous braces sent it to make it seem like theirs is ok.
Form 1s right now are coming back in 90-100 days which i think is worth the wait for the peace of mind.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk What?!? 90-100 days? I sure hope so...
_________________ I hunt the things that go bump in the night....
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Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:07 am |
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MyNameIs940
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Location: Kirkland Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 Posts: 820
Real Name: Shawn
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Powderman wrote: MyNameIs940 wrote: The ATF ruling on the braces is if you build one to get away from nfa laws it’s a felony. If you build it as a pistol then happen to shoulder it you’re fine.
I’m building a few sbrs because of that and the atf May change their mind again. Also the sba3 doesn’t have a letter from the atf last I heard, they combined two letters from previous braces sent it to make it seem like theirs is ok.
Form 1s right now are coming back in 90-100 days which i think is worth the wait for the peace of mind.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk What?!? 90-100 days? I sure hope so... I’m a permanent resident so I get locked up in the waiting fbi check, but at the 90 day mark my form 1 went from pending to waiting fbi background check. For people who get proceeds on nics that takes a day. For people like me who get delayed it can take anywhere from a week to a year. https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/comments/9 ... h=f69c1ff7There’s all the form 1 dates coming back this month. The atf was granted money to hire more people and they are trying to get wait times down for form1s and form 4s to 90 days. Looks like some form 1 are coming back in 80 days now. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:15 am |
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A.O.
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Location: Tacoma :( Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 Posts: 2403
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I've been leaning hard towards AOW vs SBRs. It works for my pistols, and allows less hassle than an SBR. I only own one SBR now, and that's because it's a krink style m92 side folder. I've used the SB15 brace, a shockwave, and a tailhook brace on my other pistols. I think it all depends on the platform though.
If we could find a (class 2?) Manufacturer who would be willing to do a bunch of AOW transfers on form 4s, that would be great. Because $5 vs $200 on a form 1 is crazy. But they have to sit on it for the turn around time. I need to find one to talk more about it...
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Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:33 am |
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RocketScott
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Location: Kentucky Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 Posts: 11045
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old11bravo wrote: The SBA3 can be had for anywhere between $120-$150. Both my AR SBRs have stocks I bought used for around $40. The standard 6 position buffer tube was $25 complete with buffer and spring. Most braces are more than that. The BAD tailhook is over $200. A shockwave blade setup is close to $100 at Brownells. It doesn't make sense to me why you'd pay substantially more for a 'brace' to save the $200. It's true that the wait sucks, and then you have to pay to get it engraved. At least you get to keep it while you wait, unlike a suppressor. old11bravo wrote: I am unsure why anyone would waste time and money for a stamp anymore with the advent of the newer innovative "braces" like these. Isn't that the whole point of this hobby? To waste time and money? Hell, I just bought an M203. Why? because I can.
_________________ You may be right, I may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for
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Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:04 am |
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Ops
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Location: Piece/Clallam Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 Posts: 10688
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pistol you can carry loaded in your car and travel and not have to get atf permission.
and because 2 fer the price of one is nice
_________________Yaki's - last journeyPromote a Growth Mindset. Don't let a fixed mindset not allow change for the better.
pow·er trip - noun - a self-aggrandizing quest for ever-increasing control over others.
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Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:41 am |
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old11bravo
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Location: Everett Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 Posts: 3421
Real Name: Ron
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MyNameIs940 wrote: The ATF ruling on the braces is if you build one to get away from nfa laws it’s a felony. If you build it as a pistol then happen to shoulder it you’re fine.
I’m building a few sbrs because of that and the atf May change their mind again. Also the sba3 doesn’t have a letter from the atf last I heard, they combined two letters from previous braces sent it to make it seem like theirs is ok.
Form 1s right now are coming back in 90-100 days which i think is worth the wait for the peace of mind.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk What're you? Canadian or something?!?OhShoot! wrote: MyNameIs940 wrote: The ATF ruling on the braces is if you build one to get away from nfa laws it’s a felony. How could they prove intent on this allegation unless you were to post your intent clearly on an online forum? +1000RocketScott wrote: old11bravo wrote: The SBA3 can be had for anywhere between $120-$150. Both my AR SBRs have stocks I bought used for around $40. The standard 6 position buffer tube was $25 complete with buffer and spring. Most braces are more than that. The BAD tailhook is over $200. A shockwave blade setup is close to $100 at Brownells. It doesn't make sense to me why you'd pay substantially more for a 'brace' to save the $200. It's true that the wait sucks, and then you have to pay to get it engraved. At least you get to keep it while you wait, unlike a suppressor. I listed retail prices on the SBA3 above but I've seen them for as little as $100 and as far as going the "used" route like you quoted on your SBR stocks, well you can play that game with braces too. I just saw two used KAK blade set ups (tube included) sell on this very forum for $30 each. You have to compare apples to apples if you're going to quote used prices on one item and then compare them to new prices on another. Seriously though, it's not even about the cost. See below.RocketScott wrote: old11bravo wrote: I am unsure why anyone would waste time and money for a stamp anymore with the advent of the newer innovative "braces" like these. Isn't that the whole point of this hobby? To waste time and money? Hell, I just bought an M203. Why? because I can. Waste time and money? Hell yeah brother, I'm okay with both but I'd rather waste my time on the range with my AR pistol and my money on ammo flying down range. I think for me it's more about the convenience and not having to acquiesce to every friggen big government, uneducated politicians BS demands, conditions and limitations placed on my 2nd ammendment rights.
Congrats on the M203 brother! Now you're making me envious!! Don't really have anything for you on that one except when can I come over and shoot it with ya?Ops wrote: pistol you can carry loaded in your car and travel and not have to get atf permission.
and because 2 fer the price of one is nice Bingo! Ops for the win!!
Last edited by old11bravo on Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:41 am |
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edogg
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Location: Central FL Joined: Sun Apr 7, 2013 Posts: 3207
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I went with an SBR instead of brace for 2 reasons:
1) I wanted a vertical grip
2) I don’t want to be subject to the whims of ATF interpretations. Previously, the ATF said that shouldering a brace is a no-no. Now that we have a new president, the ATF said that it’s ok. What happens if they say “just kidding” and reverse it back? Or decide that braces are too much of a workaround like bump stocks? With an SBR I know that it will take more than an ATF rule interpretation letter to change those rules.
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Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:51 am |
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old11bravo
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Location: Everett Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 Posts: 3421
Real Name: Ron
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edogg wrote: I went with an SBR instead of brace for 2 reasons:
1) I wanted a vertical grip
2) I don’t want to be subject to the whims of ATF interpretations. Previously, the ATF said that shouldering a brace is a no-no. Now that we have a new president, the ATF said that it’s ok. What happens if they say “just kidding” and reverse it back? Or decide that braces are too much of a workaround like bump stocks? With an SBR I know that it will take more than an ATF rule interpretation letter to change those rules.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Never liked vertical grips myself but respect that some do. The whole shouldering thing is a farce, an excuse for people that really don't want an AR pistol anyway. There's an old adage that says it best, If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it make a sound? When and "if" the ATF fips or flops on the subject, well then I guess Ill have no choice but to SBR but until then I can continue to build, shoot and have fun with my AR pistols until the sun goes down. Don't get me wrong, I would truly love to have an SBR. I mean really, I'd love to have two of every gun ever made, like the Noahs Ark of guns. But.... until then, the AR pistols are just way more convenient than an SBR all the way around.
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Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:51 am |
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PinSniper
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Location: Seattle Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 Posts: 765
Real Name: Erik
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I have zero interest in voluntarily signing up for gun registration. The NFA is unconstitutional, but for now, I'll just steer clear and wait until it's repealed.
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Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:57 pm |
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jukk0u
Site Supporter
Location: Lynnwood and at large Joined: Wed May 1, 2013 Posts: 21151
Real Name: Vick Lagina
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What Ops and Pinsniper said:
I'll keep my $200 I'll carry my pistol loaded and concealed, and in my car when necessary. I don't have to wait for shit. Stay the frack out of my business.
_________________ “Finding ‘common ground’ with the thinking of evil men is a fool’s errand” ~ Herschel Smith
"The said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." ~ Samuel Adams
“A return to First Principles in a Republic is sometimes caused by simple virtues of a single man. His good example has such an influence that the good men strive to imitate him, and the wicked are ashamed to lead a life so contrary to his example. Before all else, be armed!” ~ Niccolo Machiavelli
Láodòng zhèng zhūwèi zìyóu
FJB
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Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:06 pm |
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golddigger14s
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Location: Faxon, OK Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 Posts: 17806
Real Name: Chuck
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PinSniper wrote: I have zero interest in voluntarily signing up for gun registration. The NFA is unconstitutional, but for now, I'll just steer clear and wait until it's repealed. I'm sure that I will die before that happens. BTW your guns are already "registered".
_________________ "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
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Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:41 pm |
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TechnoWeenie
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Location: Nova Laboratories Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 Posts: 18385
Real Name: Johnny 5
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In WA, no loaded rifles in cars, pistols are OK with CPL. That right there is reason enough not to go SBR route, IMO.
Pay $200 to not be able to keep it loaded and have to notify every time it goes out of state? No thank you.
_________________NO DISASSEMBLE!Thomas Paine wrote: "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
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Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:03 pm |
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