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jukk0u
Site Supporter
Location: Lynnwood and at large Joined: Wed May 1, 2013 Posts: 21151
Real Name: Vick Lagina
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which means that if you submit an accessory like a pistol brace, they aren't going to make a determination on the brace alone; it has to be submitted with the particular firearm for which it was designed. Here's a better and more complete assessment: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/201 ... NewsletterDon't know if they're aiming toward some retroactive action on determinations they've already made... we'll see.
_________________ “Finding ‘common ground’ with the thinking of evil men is a fool’s errand” ~ Herschel Smith
"The said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." ~ Samuel Adams
“A return to First Principles in a Republic is sometimes caused by simple virtues of a single man. His good example has such an influence that the good men strive to imitate him, and the wicked are ashamed to lead a life so contrary to his example. Before all else, be armed!” ~ Niccolo Machiavelli
Láodòng zhèng zhūwèi zìyóu
FJB
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:24 am |
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Wetpaperbag
Site Supporter
Location: olympia Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 Posts: 3783
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So basically they don't want us mixing and matching. They want the accessory to remain with the initial rifle, not something you removed from one rifle to attach to another?
I can see why they are doing this, but good luck trying to regulate it.
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:37 am |
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Massivedesign
Site Admin
Location: Olympia, WA Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 Posts: 38292
Real Name: Dan
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It's going to make new/improved accessories, like an arm brace, more difficult to get "the letter". I can't say I blame them for wanting to shy away from that with what is probably a massive influx of letter requests for imaginary or possible configurations.
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:43 am |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 51919
Real Name: Steve
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Massivedesign wrote: It's going to make new/improved accessories, like an arm brace, more difficult to get "the letter". I can't say I blame them for wanting to shy away from that with what is probably a massive influx of letter requests for imaginary or possible configurations. Agreed. Maybe a better approach would be to eliminate so many of the bullshit rules and laws that drive us to ask for such classifications. Maybe we can finally agree that nobody really gives a shit whether that's a "vertical" fore grip or an "angled" fore grip on your pistol? Or whether you're pushing a "stock" or a "brace" up against your shoulder . . . inadvertently? We're spending so much of our collective time -- both gun owners' and the ATF's -- on such trivial, meaningless shit.
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:46 am |
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golddigger14s
Site Supporter
Location: Faxon, OK Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 Posts: 17806
Real Name: Chuck
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Common sense will not be tolerated!
_________________ "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:24 am |
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Selador
Site Supporter
Location: Index Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 Posts: 12963
Real Name: Jeff
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MadPick wrote: Massivedesign wrote: It's going to make new/improved accessories, like an arm brace, more difficult to get "the letter". I can't say I blame them for wanting to shy away from that with what is probably a massive influx of letter requests for imaginary or possible configurations. Agreed. Maybe a better approach would be to eliminate so many of the bullshit rules and laws that drive us to ask for such classifications. Maybe we can finally agree that nobody really gives a shit whether that's a "vertical" fore grip or an "angled" fore grip on your pistol? Or whether you're pushing a "stock" or a "brace" up against your shoulder . . . inadvertently? We're spending so much of our collective time -- both gun owners' and the ATF's -- on such trivial, meaningless shit. Agreed. 2A... Dead of a thousand paper cuts.
_________________ -Jeff
How can I help you, and/or make you smile, today?
You are entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to tell me what mine must be.
Do justice. Love mercy.
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ~ Richard P. Feynman
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:11 am |
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Rix86
Site Supporter
Location: Shelton Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 Posts: 5837
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So does that mean they can't classify a bump fire stock as anything, because it's an accessory? Unless some asshole sends one in on a rifle?
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:58 am |
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jukk0u
Site Supporter
Location: Lynnwood and at large Joined: Wed May 1, 2013 Posts: 21151
Real Name: Vick Lagina
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Rix86 wrote: So does that mean they can't classify a bump fire stock as anything, because it's an accessory? Unless some asshole sends one in on a rifle? Dunno about that, but the D's are head hunting the Attny that signed that shit and if they do oust him there is speculation that it might void that order. https://www.ammoland.com/2018/12/as-med ... z5ZO3zBizT
_________________ “Finding ‘common ground’ with the thinking of evil men is a fool’s errand” ~ Herschel Smith
"The said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." ~ Samuel Adams
“A return to First Principles in a Republic is sometimes caused by simple virtues of a single man. His good example has such an influence that the good men strive to imitate him, and the wicked are ashamed to lead a life so contrary to his example. Before all else, be armed!” ~ Niccolo Machiavelli
Láodòng zhèng zhūwèi zìyóu
FJB
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:10 am |
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Massivedesign
Site Admin
Location: Olympia, WA Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 Posts: 38292
Real Name: Dan
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Good update from TFB regarding this situation: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/201 ... NewsletterQuote: As a follow-up to yesterday’s announcement by the ATF regarding the discontinuation of accessory classifications without a host firearm, sources that work closely with the law enforcement and regulatory agency have come forward with additional information. Apparently the Firearms Technology Industry Services Branch (FTISB), has been swamped with submissions from manufacturers without a host weapon as context for how the device will be utilized. The new procedure may help to cull the volume of “junk” accessories that are submitted for review – fleshlights attached to AR15 stocks, for example. (Yes, I said fleshlight, not flashlight. Don’t Google that from work). And yes, apparently that actually happened.....
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Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:49 am |
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Pablo
Site Supporter
Location: Everson, WA Joined: Sun Jan 6, 2013 Posts: 28149
Real Name: Ace Winky
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Hump stock?
Need one.
_________________ Why does the Penguin in Batman sound like a duck?
Because the eagle sounds like a hawk.
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Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:09 pm |
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leadcounsel
Site Supporter
Location: Can't say Joined: Sun Sep 7, 2014 Posts: 8134
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So, here's my fundamental problem with this.
The government has created arbitrary, confusing rules. And they know it. These rules carry massive penalties. And they know it.
They are so sick of people (you know, us citizens who pay taxes and expect fairness and freedom) trying to understand the laws so we can comply, or find work arounds in some cases, that they are now refusing to even help us understand these arbitrary and confusing rules that carry serious penalties.
It's like when people asked the WA State AG to help understand I594 and they refused.
Who is the servant of who anymore????
Probably close to 100% of the gun rules and regs could be and should be totally just scrapped as wasteful, needless, pointless, arbitrary, capricious, etc. I can think of very few that are logical, based in reason and common sense, or make people legitimately safer.
Does an extra non-US part make a gun less safe or more deadly? Does a forward grip on a pistol make it somehow more dangerous? And so forth. It's the dirty secret everyone knows yet nobody can seem to fix.
The REAL harm is that damage it does to the credibility of government, because the government has long ago ceased providing a service to the people, but instead is now grown into a tax gobbling power mad control hungry monster that serves itself and only grows bigger and less fair. I submit that's more harmful than a "too short" rifle or "too long" pistol... both in the same caliber and do the exact same thing...
_________________ I defend the 2A. US Army Combat Veteran and Paratrooper: OIF Veteran. BSM and MSM recipient. NRA Lifetime. Entertainment purposes only. I'm a lawyer, but have not offered you legal advice.
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Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:39 pm |
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SporkBoy
Site Supporter
Location: Deckerville Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 Posts: 2944
Real Name: Rob
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Sounds like illegal underground regulation. Same as bumpstock fiasco. This kind of over reach is everywhere and needs a smack down of epic proportions.
_________________ “The Democrats are playing you for a political chump and if you vote for them, not only are you a chump, you are a traitor to your race.”-Malcolm X
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Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:33 pm |
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root
Site Supporter
Location: Apple Country! Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 Posts: 4578
Real Name: J
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jukk0u wrote: Rix86 wrote: So does that mean they can't classify a bump fire stock as anything, because it's an accessory? Unless some asshole sends one in on a rifle? Dunno about that, but the D's are head hunting the Attny that signed that shit and if they do oust him there is speculation that it might void that order. https://www.ammoland.com/2018/12/as-med ... z5ZO3zBizTIt aint the Ds doing the looking... They are not the ones directing that.
_________________ "Guns are dangerous." -Massivedesign
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Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:25 pm |
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