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Big frame psa ar 308 or 6.5
https://www.waguns.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=98181		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  PinSniper [ Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big frame psa ar 08 or 6.5
Pablo wrote:

People buy a $650 PSA AR-10 and expect to shoot well at 700 yards? I just find that just a tad lofty expectation. Mine is just fine at 200 and that's not what I bought it for anyway.


I think it can be done. My Ruger MPR shoots 77gr sierra match kings with about .7MOA and I paid $570 for that and shot boomershoot with it (lots of targets between 600 to 700).

I'm personally keen to get an AR10 in either 6.5 or 308, but... just want something off-the-shelf that delivers sub-moa accuracy. The only shops that could potentially do that affordably are the ones that do everything in house like the MPR. The only place to my knowlege offering AR10s even close to matching that description are the PSAs.
Author:  Blaze.45 [ Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big frame psa ar 308 or 6.5
Avoid PSA's .308 complete uppers, I have an 18" mid and it's super overgassed (though reliable) 4moa with M80 ball, 2.5moa with FGMM 175. I got it down to 2moa with handloads, but that was unacceptable so I rebuilt the uppers. Bottom line, PSA's .308 barrels suck. No experience with their 6.5 barrels.
Author:  PinSniper [ Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big frame psa ar 308 or 6.5
Blaze.45 wrote:
Avoid PSA's .308 complete uppers, I have an 18" mid and it's super overgassed (though reliable) 4moa with M80 ball, 2.5moa with FGMM 175. I got it down to 2moa with handloads, but that was unacceptable so I rebuilt the uppers. Bottom line, PSA's .308 barrels suck. No experience with their 6.5 barrels.



Good to know! Was it a stainless or melonited barrel?
Author:  AR15L [ Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big frame psa ar 308 or 6.5
Image

A friend of mine bought one of these and has never shot it.
Want me to see if he'll sell?

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/09/daniel-zimmerman/gun-review-fn-fnar-rifle/
Author:  Yondering [ Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big frame psa ar 08 or 6.5
PinSniper wrote:
I think it can be done. My Ruger MPR shoots 77gr sierra match kings with about .7MOA and I paid $570 for that and shot boomershoot with it (lots of targets between 600 to 700).

I'm personally keen to get an AR10 in either 6.5 or 308, but... just want something off-the-shelf that delivers sub-moa accuracy. The only shops that could potentially do that affordably are the ones that do everything in house like the MPR. The only place to my knowlege offering AR10s even close to matching that description are the PSAs.


Depends what you mean by sub-moa accuracy. With off the shelf ammo or tuned handloads? 3 shots, 5 shots, or 10 shots? If you're talking about 10 shot groups with factory ammo, probably not gonna happen. 5 shots with good tuned handloads? My PA-10 (.308) does that with the factory barrel, and I can and do shoot steel with it at 600-800 yards. But don't expect anything close to that with milsurp ammo or similar.

I think if you're wanting a pretty good AR10 with a high likelihood of being an accurate shooter but on somewhat of a budget (i.e. not $2k off the shelf), I'd pick up a PSA and drop a high end barrel in it. They accept DPMS pattern barrels so a swap is no big deal. But, I'm willing to do that kind of work for my own rifles, along with other tweaks like adding an adjustable gas block (which every 308 or 6.5 Creed AR needs), trigger work, etc. If you're not willing to do that stuff yourself, I think you'll have to spend a lot more off the shelf, or find someone willing to do it for you.
Author:  PinSniper [ Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big frame psa ar 08 or 6.5
Yondering wrote:
PinSniper wrote:
I think it can be done. My Ruger MPR shoots 77gr sierra match kings with about .7MOA and I paid $570 for that and shot boomershoot with it (lots of targets between 600 to 700).

I'm personally keen to get an AR10 in either 6.5 or 308, but... just want something off-the-shelf that delivers sub-moa accuracy. The only shops that could potentially do that affordably are the ones that do everything in house like the MPR. The only place to my knowlege offering AR10s even close to matching that description are the PSAs.


Depends what you mean by sub-moa accuracy. With off the shelf ammo or tuned handloads? 3 shots, 5 shots, or 10 shots? If you're talking about 10 shot groups with factory ammo, probably not gonna happen. 5 shots with good tuned handloads? My PA-10 (.308) does that with the factory barrel, and I can and do shoot steel with it at 600-800 yards. But don't expect anything close to that with milsurp ammo or similar.

I think if you're wanting a pretty good AR10 with a high likelihood of being an accurate shooter but on somewhat of a budget (i.e. not $2k off the shelf), I'd pick up a PSA and drop a high end barrel in it. They accept DPMS pattern barrels so a swap is no big deal. But, I'm willing to do that kind of work for my own rifles, along with other tweaks like adding an adjustable gas block (which every 308 or 6.5 Creed AR needs), trigger work, etc. If you're not willing to do that stuff yourself, I think you'll have to spend a lot more off the shelf, or find someone willing to do it for you.



To me, accuracy is measured as 5 round groups with whatever ammo you will run. For me, I'm not a reloader, so that means factory.

As I said, my ruger MPR is running 77 grain, imi razor cores at around .7-.8 5 round groups.

A cheap, accurate 308 or 65 might not exist yet, but it may come.. I wonder if the 65 psa is a lot better than the 308...
Author:  Blaze.45 [ Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big frame psa ar 308 or 6.5
PinSniper wrote:
Blaze.45 wrote:
Avoid PSA's .308 complete uppers, I have an 18" mid and it's super overgassed (though reliable) 4moa with M80 ball, 2.5moa with FGMM 175. I got it down to 2moa with handloads, but that was unacceptable so I rebuilt the uppers. Bottom line, PSA's .308 barrels suck. No experience with their 6.5 barrels.



Good to know! Was it a stainless or melonited barrel?



Stainless 18" mid

In hindsight I should have returned it and had them send another out, but I didn't want the hassle especially since it was a black friday sale holiday busy time etc. Its a journey for sure, but a much shorter one learning from my (and others) mistakes. All in all, the upper and lower are worth it.
Author:  Blaze.45 [ Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big frame psa ar 08 or 6.5
Yondering wrote:
...along with other tweaks like adding an adjustable gas block (which every 308 or 6.5 Creed AR needs)...


This.

After rebuilding (diff caliber) with a faxon barrel and bcg it turned into a 1moa gun. After an adjustable gas-block it's sub-moa. The action is overgassed (for reliability), and I'm guessing accuracy suffered due to concentricity fuckery upon chambering.
Author:  Yondering [ Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big frame psa ar 308 or 6.5
ALL 308 ARs need adjustable gas blocks. (Or some method of gas restriction.) Heavy buffers and springs are not enough.
Author:  The509busman [ Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big frame psa ar 308 or 6.5
Yondering wrote:
ALL 308 ARs need adjustable gas blocks. (Or some method of gas restriction.) Heavy buffers and springs are not enough.


I am curious about this statement what othe forms of gas restriction are out there?
Author:  Yondering [ Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big frame psa ar 308 or 6.5
One example, which I like in situations where you can't use an AGB (like with an A2 front sight), is to insert a restrictor bushing in the gas block, where it's trapped between the barrel and gas tube. It requires drilling the bushing (I make them from set screws, same screws that hold most low profile gas blocks on) to the right size, but once it's done it never loses adjustment.

There are also adjustable gas tubes and adjustable gas keys, neither of which I like very much, and adjustable bolt carriers like Bootleg which are great in certain applications. All the adjustable carriers I know of are a bleed-off variety instead of a restriction though, and aren't really a good substitute for proper gas adjustment.

Of course, the very best gas restriction method is to have the barrel port the correct size from the get go, but most are at least a little bit over gassed. There are some exceptions of course. When I make my own barrels, this is the route I choose, but most don't have that luxury.
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