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It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:45 pm
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Forum rules
Discussion or advice on how to create an Illegal NFA item will result in an immediate ban. No advice given within should replace user due diligence. Always consult a lawyer / professional.
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[ 12 posts ] |
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reterderr
Location: Seattle Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 Posts: 17
Real Name: Pizzle
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This may be a totally stupid idea, but what is stopping me (or anyone), from just becoming an FFL and them form3ing suppressors in days instead of doing a form 4 and waiting a year for each one? I wouldn’t be surprised to learn the FFL approval process takes a year but it would only be once. The other side benefit is that this new garage FFL could sell the suppressors used fairly easily.
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Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:56 am |
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foothills
Site Supporter
Location: Hoodsport/Shelton Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 Posts: 3370
Real Name: Don
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reterderr wrote: This may be a totally stupid idea, but what is stopping me (or anyone), from just becoming an FFL and them form3ing suppressors in days instead of doing a form 4 and waiting a year for each one? I wouldn’t be surprised to learn the FFL approval process takes a year but it would only be once. The other side benefit is that this new garage FFL could sell the suppressors used fairly easily. Becoming an FFL isn't that hard, just have to pass all the checks and inspection stuff. But you also have to meet all zoning, get your WA state firearms dealers license, that has to be reapplied for each year (can't renew), a WA state business license, a WA state resellers permit, set up an account with the WA DOR for tax payment, get the WA state computer program for BGC compliance, liability insurance, find a banking institution that will work with firearms related business etc etc. The BATFE part is actually the easy part. It's all the collateral stuff that's a hassle anymore. Annnd I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out that others will correct me on.
_________________ "The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living".
-- Travis A Kisner
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Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:11 am |
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reginald_burrito
Site Supporter
Location: Not Seattle Joined: Wed Nov 2, 2016 Posts: 698
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Edit: Oops, already said.
_________________ Cognitive dissonance kills
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Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:41 am |
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EmbraceTheEdge
Site Supporter
Location: Camano Island Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 Posts: 378
Real Name: Lyle
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I'm interested in the idea. But seems like it would be more hassle and more scrutiny just for cans.
_________________jukk0u wrote: Apathy is another and perhaps the biggest obstacle for the defense of our rights... Member: 2nd Amendment Foundation Gun Owners of America Firearms Policy Coalition Silent Majority Foundation NRA
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Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:47 am |
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dreadi
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Tacoma, Washington Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 Posts: 8328
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foothills wrote: Becoming an FFL isn't that hard, just have to pass all the checks and inspection stuff. But you also have to meet all zoning, get your WA state firearms dealers license, that has to be reapplied for each year (can't renew), a WA state business license, a WA state resellers permit, set up an account with the WA DOR for tax payment, get the WA state computer program for BGC compliance, liability insurance, find a banking institution that will work with firearms related business etc etc. The BATFE part is actually the easy part. It's all the collateral stuff that's a hassle anymore. Annnd I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out that others will correct me on. There is no inspection. You'll need a state dealer's license. You don't have to get a computer program the state, nor do you have to get insurance. You will have to pay the SOT in addition to license application fee do deal in NFA items. You will have to pay for a few finger print cards. You may want to create an LLC. The total time it took to apply for and receive my FFL and state dealer's license was less than three months. If you're going to deal in new suppressors, you'll likely want to establish accounts with manufacturers and distributors.
_________________BLACK HAMMER ARMSBuy A Suppressor http://www.silencershop.com/blackhammerarmsType 7 Class 2 SOT NFA Dealer 1911 Pistolsmithing Firearm Refinishing GLOCK Certified Armorer CMMG Authorized Dealer NEMO Arms Authorized Dealer http://www.blackhammerarms.comhttp://www.facebook.com/blackhammerarmshttps://www.instagram.com/blackhammerarms/
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Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:21 pm |
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foothills
Site Supporter
Location: Hoodsport/Shelton Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 Posts: 3370
Real Name: Don
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dreadi wrote: foothills wrote: Becoming an FFL isn't that hard, just have to pass all the checks and inspection stuff. But you also have to meet all zoning, get your WA state firearms dealers license, that has to be reapplied for each year (can't renew), a WA state business license, a WA state resellers permit, set up an account with the WA DOR for tax payment, get the WA state computer program for BGC compliance, liability insurance, find a banking institution that will work with firearms related business etc etc. The BATFE part is actually the easy part. It's all the collateral stuff that's a hassle anymore. Annnd I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out that others will correct me on. There is no inspection. You'll need a state dealer's license. You don't have to get a computer program the state, nor do you have to get insurance. You will have to pay the SOT in addition to license application fee do deal in NFA items. You will have to pay for a few finger print cards. You may want to create an LLC. The total time it took to apply for and receive my FFL and state dealer's license was less than three months. If you're going to deal in new suppressors, you'll likely want to establish accounts with manufacturers and distributors. No inspection? An ATF agent came to my residence to verify who I was, by comparing my submitted photo to my actual face. And to inspect that I had secure storage capabilities. And every person I know who has applied for their FFL has had a face to face with a compliance agent. And that same agent went over my local zoning requirements and WA state requirements. You may not NEED to get insurance...but damn risky not to. I don't have my FFL any longer. Maybe my saying their program is inaccurate. But my understanding was that since the state no longer does paper forms you have to have the ability to access their computer system for pistol transfer applications. And my computer at the time was not adequate to do so.
_________________ "The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living".
-- Travis A Kisner
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Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:31 pm |
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dreadi
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Tacoma, Washington Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 Posts: 8328
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foothills wrote: dreadi wrote: foothills wrote: Becoming an FFL isn't that hard, just have to pass all the checks and inspection stuff. But you also have to meet all zoning, get your WA state firearms dealers license, that has to be reapplied for each year (can't renew), a WA state business license, a WA state resellers permit, set up an account with the WA DOR for tax payment, get the WA state computer program for BGC compliance, liability insurance, find a banking institution that will work with firearms related business etc etc. The BATFE part is actually the easy part. It's all the collateral stuff that's a hassle anymore. Annnd I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out that others will correct me on. There is no inspection. You'll need a state dealer's license. You don't have to get a computer program the state, nor do you have to get insurance. You will have to pay the SOT in addition to license application fee do deal in NFA items. You will have to pay for a few finger print cards. You may want to create an LLC. The total time it took to apply for and receive my FFL and state dealer's license was less than three months. If you're going to deal in new suppressors, you'll likely want to establish accounts with manufacturers and distributors. No inspection? An ATF agent came to my residence to verify who I was, by comparing my submitted photo to my actual face. And to inspect that I had secure storage capabilities. And every person I know who has applied for their FFL has had a face to face with a compliance agent. You may not NEED to get insurance...but damn risky not to. I don't have my FFL any longer, had it since 1989 though. Maybe my saying their program is inaccurate. But my understanding was that since the state no longer does paper forms you have to have the ability to access their computer system for pistol transfer applications. And my computer at the time was not adequate to do so. Correct, no inspection. The face to face part is not an inspection and they do not require secure storage. The ATF did not inspect my property or even ask if I had a safe. It was even pointed out that by the agent that they do not have storage requirements. The state does provide the PTA form in a .PDF that you can print out and submit in-person, e-mail, fax, or mail it in. You can choose to submit them online through a secure portal as well.
_________________BLACK HAMMER ARMSBuy A Suppressor http://www.silencershop.com/blackhammerarmsType 7 Class 2 SOT NFA Dealer 1911 Pistolsmithing Firearm Refinishing GLOCK Certified Armorer CMMG Authorized Dealer NEMO Arms Authorized Dealer http://www.blackhammerarms.comhttp://www.facebook.com/blackhammerarmshttps://www.instagram.com/blackhammerarms/
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Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:53 pm |
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foothills
Site Supporter
Location: Hoodsport/Shelton Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 Posts: 3370
Real Name: Don
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dreadi wrote: foothills wrote: dreadi wrote: foothills wrote: Becoming an FFL isn't that hard, just have to pass all the checks and inspection stuff. But you also have to meet all zoning, get your WA state firearms dealers license, that has to be reapplied for each year (can't renew), a WA state business license, a WA state resellers permit, set up an account with the WA DOR for tax payment, get the WA state computer program for BGC compliance, liability insurance, find a banking institution that will work with firearms related business etc etc. The BATFE part is actually the easy part. It's all the collateral stuff that's a hassle anymore. Annnd I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out that others will correct me on. There is no inspection. You'll need a state dealer's license. You don't have to get a computer program the state, nor do you have to get insurance. You will have to pay the SOT in addition to license application fee do deal in NFA items. You will have to pay for a few finger print cards. You may want to create an LLC. The total time it took to apply for and receive my FFL and state dealer's license was less than three months. If you're going to deal in new suppressors, you'll likely want to establish accounts with manufacturers and distributors. No inspection? An ATF agent came to my residence to verify who I was, by comparing my submitted photo to my actual face. And to inspect that I had secure storage capabilities. And every person I know who has applied for their FFL has had a face to face with a compliance agent. You may not NEED to get insurance...but damn risky not to. I don't have my FFL any longer, had it since 1989 though. Maybe my saying their program is inaccurate. But my understanding was that since the state no longer does paper forms you have to have the ability to access their computer system for pistol transfer applications. And my computer at the time was not adequate to do so. Correct, no inspection. The face to face part is not an inspection and they do not require secure storage. The ATF did not inspect my property or even ask if I had a safe. It was even pointed out that by the agent that they do not have storage requirements. The state does provide the PTA form in a .PDF that you can print out and submit in-person, e-mail, fax, or mail it in. You can choose to submit them online through a secure portal as well. That's changed then or maybe it's who does your check. Because he specifically asked to see my safe or storage abilities and inspected my door locks and window accessibility. Also asked if I planned to store my personal guns separate from business inventory. And if separate from...he wanted to look at my personal safe as well. Which he did. Didn't look at anything but to verify that I had separate storage. But this was 2006.
_________________ "The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living".
-- Travis A Kisner
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Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:28 pm |
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dreadi
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Tacoma, Washington Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 Posts: 8328
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I understand.
Back to the OP...go for it. I keep suggesting it to people as a means to get over on some of the impending restrictions.
_________________BLACK HAMMER ARMSBuy A Suppressor http://www.silencershop.com/blackhammerarmsType 7 Class 2 SOT NFA Dealer 1911 Pistolsmithing Firearm Refinishing GLOCK Certified Armorer CMMG Authorized Dealer NEMO Arms Authorized Dealer http://www.blackhammerarms.comhttp://www.facebook.com/blackhammerarmshttps://www.instagram.com/blackhammerarms/
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Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:33 pm |
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reterderr
Location: Seattle Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 Posts: 17
Real Name: Pizzle
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Great replies. Thanks. I usually think about things for 6 months before making any moves but the state requirements don’t seem that onerous. I may do it. I suppose with dealer accounts I would have access to wholesale pricing too. Next thing you know I will have a side business.
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Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:09 am |
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A.O.
Site Supporter
Location: Tacoma :( Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 Posts: 2403
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I think you would want a side business just to help offset costs. I've thought about doing it to get class 3 access, but if I don't renew, I'd lose the ability to keep said items. Especially selectfire stuff. (Can sop/class3 dealers have them as prototypes in WA)
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Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:35 pm |
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The mad scientist
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: snohomish Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 Posts: 212
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ATF now requires all SOT's to have a EIN, so you have to be a registered corporation. Sole-prop businesses can get an FFL but they can not get an SOT. ATF requires you to be "in the business" of selling guns/silencers and you can get in a bunch of trouble if you get a FFL/SOT just for personal purchases, along with the fact that as a corporation, when you close shop, you don't get to just keep your "inventory" but rather you have to formally transfer everything to yourself anyways. I have an FFL and all together it's a lot of work staying compliant and running a business in this industry. All my NFA stuff is personally registered because at the end of the day the added wait time is worth the fact that I don't have to do anything with them or to them until I die, compared to the seemingly endless flow of paperwork that comes with a having a business and an FFL.
If you actually want to do it as a business, I bet you could make good money selling used NFA items. I see department trade ins and demo NFA items come up for sale from some of our suppliers every now and then for almost nothing and if that's all you focused on, you could probably stay pretty busy or at least busy enough.
_________________ Life isn't about the money you make, the car you drive, the house you live in or being the CEO of a company. Life is about enjoying each day, experiencing everything the world has to offer you and when the day comes, standing at your makers door fully satisfied with what you did with the little bit of sand that was put in your hourglass.
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Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:33 pm |
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