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 Range Closures (and re-openings!) due to COVID-19 
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Massivedesign wrote:
CQBgopher wrote:
beckdw wrote:
CQBgopher wrote:
So it’s okay for LE to congregate and (possibly) spread COVID-19 to each other, but not the unwashed masses.

Duly noted the pander to and fear of .gov

Not sure I’m comfortable spending my money at any facility that does not have the entire population’s best interest at heart.
I don't know what agencies are still training. All the FB and forum posts I see are about agencies that are doing call in briefings, cancelled training, spacing in briefings, all kinds of distancing.


It’s the principle that the ranges are making it duly noted that they WILL REMAIN OPEN FOR LE USE yet CLOSED TO THE COMMONERS.


Some ranges also have legally binding contracts with LEA agencies. Not to mention, for some ranges, ANY income is needed income.



I agree on the income angle and dont begrudge a business from trying to make ends meet. However, on the other hand, I'm not aware of anything that would prevent said ranges from declaring Force Majeure in these contracts the same as any other due to the Commie virus, declared State of Emergency, and recent Goober-natorial proclamations.

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MadPick wrote:
Without penetration data, the pics aren't of much use.

Spoiler: show
"Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm -- but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves." – T.S. Eliot

"The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." - St. George Tucker

A careful definition of words would destroy half the agenda of the political left and scrutinizing evidence would destroy the other half. - Thomas Sowell

"To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow...

For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding." - Jeff Snyder

Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the monarch of all he surveys. It realizes the ancient dream of the Jovian thunderbolt, and as such it is the embodiment of personal power. For this reason it exercises a curious influence over the minds of most men, and in its best examples it constitutes an object of affection unmatched by any other inanimate object.

Jeff Cooper
1997 The Art of the Rifle Page 1.

Spoiler: show
SUGGEST CASE BE SUBMITTED ON APPELLANT'S BRIEF. UNABLE TO OBTAIN ANY MONEY FROM CLIENTS TO BE PRESENT & ARGUE BRIEF.

The defense attorney's telegram to the clerk of the Supreme Court, March 29, 1939, in re United States. v. Miller.

You don't need to go to Law School to understand the constitutional implications of that.

“You can’t cut the throat of every cocksucker whose character it would improve.”
Spoiler: show
cityslicker wrote:
I don't want to be told that I can't remove the tree by some tree-hugging pole smoker from the eat-a-dick foundation/Olympia/King County.


Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:37 pm
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TNL wrote:
Caveman Jim wrote:
Ah, good thing my pit is open but I’ll have to start charging admission to include a sixer of Corona.... :ROFLMAO:

You're gonna get drunk, Jim! I think a lot of people will take you up on that offer! Best park a camper at that pit so you don't have to drive!


I’ll have to sleep in the Focus wagon since the F-350 is down (EGR valve)....

With this rain there hasn’t been anybody else so far for a week. Maybe I should put up a big sign and supply tacos to boot... :bigsmile:

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"We cannot negotiate with those who say, 'What's mine is mine, and what's yours is negotiable.'" JFK

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”

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MadPick wrote:
I don't think you beat your children enough. :ROFLMAO:


Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:38 pm
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Bullseye range in Tacoma is closed


Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:57 pm
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Anyone know if East County guns in Elma is open, I have not been by there in the last 3-4 days. Asking for a friend.... Really. :wink05:

Oh crap this is the gun range closures thread.

_________________
"You are either with us...as Americans. Or, You are against us. There is no IN BETWEEN." ???

"We cannot negotiate with those who say, 'What's mine is mine, and what's yours is negotiable.'" JFK

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”

-Ben Franklin

MadPick wrote:
I don't think you beat your children enough. :ROFLMAO:


Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:46 pm
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Please reconvene and reconsider with Presidential order

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Because the eagle sounds like a hawk.


Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:49 pm
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Pablo wrote:


Please reconvene and reconsider with Presidential order

I’ve sent multiple requests. Make sure you read the federal statement.

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Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:52 pm
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Pablo wrote:


Please reconvene and reconsider with Presidential order
You’re funny.


Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:47 pm
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Benja455 wrote:
Pablo wrote:


Please reconvene and reconsider with Presidential order
You’re funny.


No, just overly optimistic.

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Because the eagle sounds like a hawk.


Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:49 pm
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*Help Us Open!*
With the recent guidance from DHS, we are working on getting the range opened. We could use some help. Please fill out this online form asking for clarification.
Essential Business Inquiries
Inquiry Type Clarification
Contact Name <YOUR NAME>
Contact Email info@svrifle.org
Contact Phone <N/A>
Sector Emergency Services Sector
Business Name Snoqualmie Valley Rifle Club
Business Address 37904 SE Fall City-Snoqualmie Rd Fall City, WA 98024
Business Description Gun Range
Additional Information Shooting Ranges are listed as essential per ADVISORY MEMORANDUM
Can you provide your confirmation that you will allow shooting ranges to be opened and essential?

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Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:33 am
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A message from Norpoint Shooting Range via FB:
Quote:
Hi Folks,

Brian here. So I was hoping to having a quiet birthday at home, but I was told to check all of the angry/frustrated DM's on our Facebook page from people who are upset that we are not open.

Let's start with the facts. I have been an attorney for over twenty years, so while I respect your "opinions", internet rumors do not have the full force and weight of the law. The Federal guidelines that all of you are citing to are "guidelines" and have no force or effect on the State of Washington. Under our system, the State of Washington has broad powers to suspend commerce such as ours, and notwithstanding the Constitutional implications, we have to follow the law until there is a reversal either by the Executive branch (meaning the Governor, not the President), or in the Judicial branch.

To the practical. In order for me to sell you ammunition, or guns, I need employees. I have been in regular contact with my staff and gone over our options for reopening and not all of my staff are comfortable coming in right now. If one of my staff members or customers contracts the virus during a time when we were under a "stay at home" order, I would be subject to a huge lawsuit. If someone died, the liability could be into the millions of dollars. We are a family business that can't afford to have our lives ruined for a $40 transfer fee that results in a multi-million dollar lawsuit.

In addition, the Governor would have the right to pull our Washington State Firearms Dealers License if he wants to. That license is necessary for us to sell firearms or ammunition, which means that if we lose it, both the shop and the shooting range would go out of business. We can debate how realistic that option is, but unless you have gone toe to toe with the Government (which has unlimited resources to crush you), you have no idea what sort of stress and financial devastation that you can incur. I know it, because I was subject to an unfair prosecution by the Obama administration against Norpoint and me personally, which I won, but it was a three year ordeal that cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars to fight. I won, but the cost was way too high. The plain fact of the matter is that NONE of you can guarantee that anti-gun Jay Inslee or anti-gun Bob Ferguson would not use this option to shut down firearms dealers, or worse, sue us personally for damages resulting from being open. Some dealers think that it is worth the risk. That is their right because it is their business. I have fought that type of fight in the past over Norpoint, and I can tell you that it is not worth it.

As to your individual circumstances. I'm sorry, but the ATF will not allow "curbside delivery" of guns. I haven't done the research on ammunition, but the regulations are very specific about how firearms transactions are to be conducted.

If you had a firearm sent to Norpoint while we were closed. The carrier (either UPS or FedEx) will hold the package and try to deliver it a few more times, and then it will go back to the shipper. By now, in all probability the firearm probably went back to the shipper.

If you had a firearm delivered to Norpoint while we were open and started the paperwork, your gun is still at Norpoint, but when we open, you will have to restart the paperwork. You won't have to pay a 2nd fee to us, but the paperwork will have expired so it has to restart.

With Governor Inslee extending the closure order until May, I have called several FFL's to see if they would be willing to pick up your guns and and process the under their license. I was turned down by most of the reputable shops that are currently open. Many stated that they are not taking transfers at all.

Skagit Arms has agreed to take any firearms that we have in process and process the transactions themselves. You will have to pay them a $40 transfer fee if you want to do this, but I will not charge any costs associated with shipping the firearms to Skagit Arms. I will not be refunding your $40 transfer fee to Norpoint however. We will process your paperwork at Norpoint when we re-open, so if you don't want to pay a 2nd $40 transfer fee you will simply have to wait until we re-open. If you want to restart the process with Skagit Arms, you will have to pay them for their time.

We will start calling customers tomorrow, Saturday, April 4 to see what their preference is: 1) keep your gun at Norpoint and wait until we re-open, or 2) send your gun to Skagit Arms and re-start your paperwork there.

Again, I am sorry about the inconvenience that this is having to your life, but at the same time, I have to be prudent about the health of my business, my employees, and my family's financial security.

On a personal note, some of you have been rather mean to me in private DM's that you have sent me regarding this situation. I am mystified at how you think that by hurling personal insults towards me that I would be motivated to help you. Nobody is offering to indemnify me from any financial loss by re-opening. You all want me to take the risks associated with re-opening for your sake, and to add insult to injury, you say horrible things to me online as if I would respond to that.

Most of you have been very nice, and I thank you for your patience and support during this difficult time. If you were one of the less charitable people, I would ask you to take your business elsewhere in the future. We do keep a list of people who are not allowed to come to Norpoint and if you said horrible things to me online you can be assured that your name will be placed on that list. Frankly 99% of the time, I could care less what gutless Keyboard Commandos say, but it isn't during the nice times that you find out who your friends are...it is during the bad times. The same holds true for people that have no business associating with you, and the Chinese Wuhan virus has given me a giant Santa's list of who was naughty and who was nice.

Be safe out there...and for heaven's sake, be nice to each other.


Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:58 am
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Massivedesign wrote:
A message from Norpoint Shooting Range via FB:
Quote:
Hi Folks,

Brian here. So I was hoping to having a quiet birthday at home, but I was told to check all of the angry/frustrated DM's on our Facebook page from people who are upset that we are not open.

Let's start with the facts. I have been an attorney for over twenty years, so while I respect your "opinions", internet rumors do not have the full force and weight of the law. The Federal guidelines that all of you are citing to are "guidelines" and have no force or effect on the State of Washington. Under our system, the State of Washington has broad powers to suspend commerce such as ours, and notwithstanding the Constitutional implications, we have to follow the law until there is a reversal either by the Executive branch (meaning the Governor, not the President), or in the Judicial branch.

To the practical. In order for me to sell you ammunition, or guns, I need employees. I have been in regular contact with my staff and gone over our options for reopening and not all of my staff are comfortable coming in right now. If one of my staff members or customers contracts the virus during a time when we were under a "stay at home" order, I would be subject to a huge lawsuit. If someone died, the liability could be into the millions of dollars. We are a family business that can't afford to have our lives ruined for a $40 transfer fee that results in a multi-million dollar lawsuit.

In addition, the Governor would have the right to pull our Washington State Firearms Dealers License if he wants to. That license is necessary for us to sell firearms or ammunition, which means that if we lose it, both the shop and the shooting range would go out of business. We can debate how realistic that option is, but unless you have gone toe to toe with the Government (which has unlimited resources to crush you), you have no idea what sort of stress and financial devastation that you can incur. I know it, because I was subject to an unfair prosecution by the Obama administration against Norpoint and me personally, which I won, but it was a three year ordeal that cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars to fight. I won, but the cost was way too high. The plain fact of the matter is that NONE of you can guarantee that anti-gun Jay Inslee or anti-gun Bob Ferguson would not use this option to shut down firearms dealers, or worse, sue us personally for damages resulting from being open. Some dealers think that it is worth the risk. That is their right because it is their business. I have fought that type of fight in the past over Norpoint, and I can tell you that it is not worth it.

As to your individual circumstances. I'm sorry, but the ATF will not allow "curbside delivery" of guns. I haven't done the research on ammunition, but the regulations are very specific about how firearms transactions are to be conducted.

If you had a firearm sent to Norpoint while we were closed. The carrier (either UPS or FedEx) will hold the package and try to deliver it a few more times, and then it will go back to the shipper. By now, in all probability the firearm probably went back to the shipper.

If you had a firearm delivered to Norpoint while we were open and started the paperwork, your gun is still at Norpoint, but when we open, you will have to restart the paperwork. You won't have to pay a 2nd fee to us, but the paperwork will have expired so it has to restart.

With Governor Inslee extending the closure order until May, I have called several FFL's to see if they would be willing to pick up your guns and and process the under their license. I was turned down by most of the reputable shops that are currently open. Many stated that they are not taking transfers at all.

Skagit Arms has agreed to take any firearms that we have in process and process the transactions themselves. You will have to pay them a $40 transfer fee if you want to do this, but I will not charge any costs associated with shipping the firearms to Skagit Arms. I will not be refunding your $40 transfer fee to Norpoint however. We will process your paperwork at Norpoint when we re-open, so if you don't want to pay a 2nd $40 transfer fee you will simply have to wait until we re-open. If you want to restart the process with Skagit Arms, you will have to pay them for their time.

We will start calling customers tomorrow, Saturday, April 4 to see what their preference is: 1) keep your gun at Norpoint and wait until we re-open, or 2) send your gun to Skagit Arms and re-start your paperwork there.

Again, I am sorry about the inconvenience that this is having to your life, but at the same time, I have to be prudent about the health of my business, my employees, and my family's financial security.

On a personal note, some of you have been rather mean to me in private DM's that you have sent me regarding this situation. I am mystified at how you think that by hurling personal insults towards me that I would be motivated to help you. Nobody is offering to indemnify me from any financial loss by re-opening. You all want me to take the risks associated with re-opening for your sake, and to add insult to injury, you say horrible things to me online as if I would respond to that.

Most of you have been very nice, and I thank you for your patience and support during this difficult time. If you were one of the less charitable people, I would ask you to take your business elsewhere in the future. We do keep a list of people who are not allowed to come to Norpoint and if you said horrible things to me online you can be assured that your name will be placed on that list. Frankly 99% of the time, I could care less what gutless Keyboard Commandos say, but it isn't during the nice times that you find out who your friends are...it is during the bad times. The same holds true for people that have no business associating with you, and the Chinese Wuhan virus has given me a giant Santa's list of who was naughty and who was nice.

Be safe out there...and for heaven's sake, be nice to each other.


*couldn't* care less. Otherwise, agreed.

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Rara Temporum Felicitas Ubi Sentire Quae Velis Et Quod Velis Dicere Licet. ― Tacitus
"Well, nobody's perfect." ― Osgood Fielding III


Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:18 pm
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You can add Paul Bunyan to the closed list.

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Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:24 pm
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Ranges, trails, fishing..........highly unlikely viral spots

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Why does the Penguin in Batman sound like a duck?

Because the eagle sounds like a hawk.


Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:28 pm
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CQBgopher wrote:
So it’s okay for LE to congregate and (possibly) spread COVID-19 to each other, but not the unwashed masses.

Duly noted the pander to and fear of .gov

Not sure I’m comfortable spending my money at any facility that does not have the entire population’s best interest at heart.


Exactly!!!!

https://time.com/5812113/new-jersey-police-coronavirus/

_________________
"You are either with us...as Americans. Or, You are against us. There is no IN BETWEEN." ???

"We cannot negotiate with those who say, 'What's mine is mine, and what's yours is negotiable.'" JFK

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”

-Ben Franklin

MadPick wrote:
I don't think you beat your children enough. :ROFLMAO:


Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:08 pm
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Got an email from West Coast Armory North this AM as to why they are reopening and the details:

Quote:
Why is Our Range Open?

We have many clients who work in law enforcement or in the private security sector. These individuals must maintain firearms proficiency for their personal safety and to meet professional certification requirements. We have other clients who don’t fall into the above categories but have personal circumstances which make firearms proficiency a priority for them.

Additionally, many families perceive an increased need for all members to have familiarity with defensive firearms. It is especially important that these new or less experienced shooters have the opportunity to learn and practice safe firearms handling skills in a controlled environment.

Federal guidelines recognize the above issues and have designated firearms retailers and ranges as essential critical infrastructure.

Our opinion is that each individual should have the opportunity to make an assessment of their personal risk factors and act according to that assessment.


What are we doing to reduce the risk of COVID-19 transmission?

Traveling alone in your vehicle does not increase your risk or the risk to anyone else. The risk of COVID-19 transmission is increased most significantly by close interpersonal contact.

Upon arrival, clients are asked to maintain 6’ or more of distance while waiting to approach the check-in-counter one client at a time (unless in a group of two who already share close social distancing.)

Clients are assigned shooting lanes one person per booth. (The only exception is that two family members who already share close social distancing may share a booth.)

Once on the range shooters are separated from each other by over six feet of space and two partitions (we leave an empty booth between each shooter.)

The ventilation system on the range provides constant air flow away from the shooters.

Upon exiting the range all clients are directed to wash their hands in the bathrooms located in the range lobby.

All surfaces that people contact are cleaned multiple times during each day.

Going to a shooting range is not the best choice for all persons at this particular time. It is however an essential activity for some people and an activity which can be engaged in without significant risk of exposure to COVID-19.

The range will be open Thursday through Sunday, 10am to 8pm until further notice.

_________________
MadPick wrote:
Without penetration data, the pics aren't of much use.

Spoiler: show
"Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm -- but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves." – T.S. Eliot

"The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." - St. George Tucker

A careful definition of words would destroy half the agenda of the political left and scrutinizing evidence would destroy the other half. - Thomas Sowell

"To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow...

For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding." - Jeff Snyder

Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the monarch of all he surveys. It realizes the ancient dream of the Jovian thunderbolt, and as such it is the embodiment of personal power. For this reason it exercises a curious influence over the minds of most men, and in its best examples it constitutes an object of affection unmatched by any other inanimate object.

Jeff Cooper
1997 The Art of the Rifle Page 1.

Spoiler: show
SUGGEST CASE BE SUBMITTED ON APPELLANT'S BRIEF. UNABLE TO OBTAIN ANY MONEY FROM CLIENTS TO BE PRESENT & ARGUE BRIEF.

The defense attorney's telegram to the clerk of the Supreme Court, March 29, 1939, in re United States. v. Miller.

You don't need to go to Law School to understand the constitutional implications of that.

“You can’t cut the throat of every cocksucker whose character it would improve.”
Spoiler: show
cityslicker wrote:
I don't want to be told that I can't remove the tree by some tree-hugging pole smoker from the eat-a-dick foundation/Olympia/King County.


Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:59 am
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