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 Is 40 yards the new standard? 
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No

Most scenarios will never exceed 15-20 yards. I say most proven in previous documented cases.

The vast majority are within 3-7 yards.

The standard is based on physicality or proximity of the bad guy in situations where they are threatening you with bodily harm.

Most training involve close targets within 7-10 yards.


So with that said I know people will now look for ranges to adjust to 50 yards on a man size target. Please don’t get me wrong. This is good to build your skill. Although, I have to say a good chunk of people are not ready…

So for those that will waste ammo and get super frustrated and embarrassed by missing the side of the barn at 50 yards.

Please keep things simple.

Use man size target.
Start off close to center or “zero” your gun to you. Say anywhere from 3-7 yards where you can place shots onto a 3”x5” paper card. Consistently.

After speeding up and placing multiple shots at those distances (3-7yards) - move the target back to 10-15 yards and repeat. As you hone your marksmanship skills go slow at each new distance. Take aimed shots over long pauses. And then once you find you are hitting the 3x5 start increasing your speed.

Over the last 32 years of shooting I have shot at all distances. Even shooting out to 400 yards+ with my sidearm of the day. It’s an eye opener and it was something fun to do. Granted I may be hitting my shots at 400 but who knows the true penetration or damage it would have done at those distances.



Practice at whatever distance you feel needed. Challenge your skills is a good thing.


Thu Jul 21, 2022 2:38 pm
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Yeah this is just a case of recency bias. On a practical level you should train for the most likely scenario you are to encounter.

Break down each stat.
-your chance of violent crime
-out of the above your chance that lethal force is justified
-out of the above which ones will involve outside or inside your home where you have access to long guns
-out of the above which involve it you directly vs. others around you

Prioritize the secnarios you are training for in terms of likelyhood.


Thu Jul 21, 2022 2:51 pm
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#@oldkim
As a student of your old school shoot and move parties, I thank you
But…
I took it to another level in private
Think clearcuts with paper plate targets out to100 yds
But not knowing exactly the distance as you seek the next best cover point
It has to become instinctive at some point
Practice, practice, practice

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Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:31 pm
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I think it will change training, and that's a good thing. I came up in the era (now ending) where instructors routinely said things like, "If you're shooting someone past twenty-five yards, you're murdering them." Meaning you had means to escape due to distance to the target, since criminals can't hit people at 25.1 yards. Or they were a burglar and are running away. So don't bother with distance shooting with a handgun unless you're a hunter. It's all about two to the torso, one to the brain box at seven yards.

The "muggers and burglars" era is slowing making way for the public place mass shooter/street riot era where you simply need more firepower.

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Thu Jul 21, 2022 4:13 pm
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bubblewhip wrote:
Yeah this is just a case of recency bias. On a practical level you should train for the most likely scenario you are to encounter.


No. That's only a way to justify mediocrity. Training for the most likely, or average, or whatever middle difficulty leaves half of the bell curve not dealt with.
If you fly in an airplane, do you want the pilot only trained for average weather? Of course not.

Train for the most difficult situations you might encounter.


Fri Jul 22, 2022 10:54 pm
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Yondering wrote:
bubblewhip wrote:
Yeah this is just a case of recency bias. On a practical level you should train for the most likely scenario you are to encounter.


No. That's only a way to justify mediocrity. Training for the most likely, or average, or whatever middle difficulty leaves half of the bell curve not dealt with.
If you fly in an airplane, do you want the pilot only trained for average weather? Of course not.

Train for the most difficult situations you might encounter.
What you say is only partly true.
Training for something that is higly unlikely all to often is at the expense of training and honong skills forcthe likely.
The op had the better idea, as data shows still far more self defense is at short distances. Practice for that until you are proficient. Them practice forcthe more rare, while not ignoring keeping the likely honed.

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Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:08 am
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If you train for accuracy, THEN speed, the distance to the target ceases to mean much until you start to get to the mechanical and ergonomic limits of the weapon. But speed --- getting your weapon into play as quickly as possible to take out the threat --- has been seen as more important for some time. And it definitely is important. It's just not the only factor. So, do both and don't carry a mouse gun.

I'll be doing some M9 body target practice at 40 yards on Monday...if you're in the Spokane area you're welcome to come...

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Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:19 am
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Col_Temp wrote:
Yondering wrote:
bubblewhip wrote:
Yeah this is just a case of recency bias. On a practical level you should train for the most likely scenario you are to encounter.


No. That's only a way to justify mediocrity. Training for the most likely, or average, or whatever middle difficulty leaves half of the bell curve not dealt with.
If you fly in an airplane, do you want the pilot only trained for average weather? Of course not.

Train for the most difficult situations you might encounter.
What you say is only partly true.
Training for something that is higly unlikely all to often is at the expense of training and honong skills forcthe likely.
The op had the better idea, as data shows still far more self defense is at short distances. Practice for that until you are proficient. Them practice forcthe more rare, while not ignoring keeping the likely honed.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


One does not have to be at the expense of the other. Except maybe for the types who shoot infrequently and dry practice never. But I suspect those who actually practice these things know the distinctions here, without needing to go into all of the what and why.

It should be obvious to anyone paying attention that the dynamics have changed, and if you're "training" for the average gunfight with a J-frame at 7 yards you're not very prepared. Then again, most people doing that were never prepared in the first place, because they were practicing for a shooting match rather than preparing for a fight.


Sun Jul 24, 2022 12:37 am
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Proficiency at arms is a very diverse topic.

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Mon Jul 25, 2022 3:57 pm
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