So guys, I bought my pistol saturday afternoon, and sunday I began OC'ing. I was in the Puyallup and Tacoma areas, and as one might suspect, they're a lot more oc friendly than oh say...Downtown Seattle (which is where I OC'd tonight). A couple of the wagu crew cautioned me against IWB OC and said it's best to OWB OC if I intend to openly carry.

So here's what I'm wondering...what is the big deal if it I am intentionally exposing the grip and rear sight and a good portion of the slide? What makes you think that an officer could say partial concealment is concealment?? That is the argument that was presented to me. I believe that argument holds absolutely no value whatsoever. The whole concept of concealment is to remove something from the possibility of being observed and identified. If any part of a gun is exposed, it is by definition, no longer concealed. IWB OC keeps the grip fully exposed, and I wear my clothing in a manner that prevents it from accidentally concealing my firearm. I don't believe it can actually be defined as obscuring.

What does everyone else think? I don't have a CPL and getting one for me might be difficult as I am working the hours that they take/process the applications, and my lunch break is not long enough to deal with it. I won't be able to get a half day or day off for a while, either.

Should I be alright carrying IWB with the grip and other parts exposed? I really feel there's no way for it to be considered concealed.

IWB would be ideal, as it's not going to be noticed by as many people (who are too busy playing angry birds on their iphones, anyway) and so it will raise less alarm. Better for them going on about their day, better for me going about mine. I'm not exactly carrying a small gun, either. It's a Glock 17. A cop can't approach me and accuse me of illegally concealing. There is no legal grey area that I can find for what may or may not be CC. Either it's open or concealed, and if common observation can determine I have a gun, it sure as shit ain't concealed.

Innocent until proven guilty.

Carry on!

With no conceal license..hummm..

I know you say you have no time, but this is something that you should already have IMO, it only takes a few minutes to fill out the paperwork and get fingerprinted.

Maybe I read your post wrong, but I'm sensing quite a bit of energy being spent on justifying why NOT to obtain your CPL. Just do it. It's easy, unless there is some other reason that you may not qualify for it. If more than 400,000 folks in WA have already obtained their CPL, then it should be a breeze for you. You have the support of this entire community (WaGuns).
Let your boss know that you have a short term illness scheduled for next week and just go do it. Then you can carry however you like and not worry about it.

It took me an hour and a half at DT Seattle Courthouse.

I agree.....take a day off and make it happen. Its worth it to not have to deal with the headache. I wont mention all the benefits of having it as well, but, just make it happen.

I agree with the above posts and recommend you find a way to get the application in. Doctor/Dentist/Chiropractor appointment as an excuse, or whatever.

On the topic of IWB OC, the main problem you're likely to run into is potentially being questioned by LEO because IWB is typically a CC option. While you may not be breaking any laws OCing with an IWB, the easy transition from OC to CC with an IWB may lead to enhanced scrutiny. Granted, LEOs won't KNOW you don't have a CCW unless they question you, and from what I understand, OCing is not a justifiable reason for a stop, but having a CCW will make the issue moot.
Plus, it will allow you to carry in your car while driving!

The guys above are correct: Just get the CPL. Without it, you can't throw on a jacket that covers the pistol, you can't get in a car without unloading, and ... what about the bus? I'm not sure about the bus, check that out. I do know that you sure as hell don't want to be loading or unloading your pistol at the bus stop.

As for carrying IWB, my belief is that technically you are correct (it is NOT concealed), but you need to be very careful that you don't accidentally conceal it with an untucked shirt, or a shirt that bulges out when you sit down. As I think you already know, you ARE going to get attention, including police attention, in downtown Seattle. You want to make sure that you have all of your ducks in a row.

I think Talons is also received a bit of "negative" reaction to his OC lastnight in Seattle. No confrontations, but a bit of stop and stare, or just leaving the establishment by other people upon seeing him oc.

The concern with trying to OC with a IWB comes from vague terminology in the law. The Term exposed leaves ambiguity. I have heard it phrased as exposed and fully exposed. Why intentionally push yourself into that grey zone unless you are looking for a confrontation/debate with the pd? You also put yourself into a position to more easily have a garment unintentionally conceal and get yourself into even more hotwater.

http://www.washingtongunrights.com/wgr.pdf

http://www.opencarry.org/pdf/KingCounty ... letin.pdf/

Pose the question over at open carry and see what they say..


This is Talons we are talking about...

Steve hit the nail on the head, no CPL, no loaded carry on a bus, period. So are you going to find a place to clear your weapon before getting on the bus? Or just going to carry unloaded. Either option is not a good option.


Having an IWB OC setup is fine, but now you are dealing with a Police Officers interpretation of the law. You could loose your firearm and your ability to defend yourself while it's all being sorted out in court. I think a CPL is a far cheaper option than a lawyer.

This is what I would want to avoid. I don't carry a firearm to make a political statement, and I'm not suggesting that this is what you're doing, but I have no desire to deal with uninformed police officers and other ignorant people.

If you don't have the time to be fingerprinted for the CPL, you sure as hell don't have the time to "come down to the station to answer a few questions" or sit in the back of a squad car while checks are being run on you . . . .

THIS. Unfortunately, different human beings will interpret the law as they see it. That leaves you stuck with the inconvenience of dealing with the consequences.

Get the CPL, and you are Teflon Dan, The Pistol Packing Man - no bullshit LEO excuse to fuck up your day will stick worth a shit.

As mentioned with a CPL you don't have to worry about unloading when getting in a vehicle, or if it get covered completely by accident. Without a CPL you want to make sure it is fully visible, I use a Serpa Level II paddle holster for my 1911. Unlike Florida you don't have to worry if it accidentally gets exposed if you are CC.

There's no reason I would be denied a cpl. I had to go through an FBI background check to get my job, and that cleared in less than a day. The way we are staffed at the moment I am literally one of 3 people. I CANNOT take a day off for this. It will not get approved.

I suppose everyone feels extraordinarily cautious about this, and I can't say I'm surprised. Have any of you had a problem? Know anyone that has? Tales of caution?

Never seen or heard of a problem in Seattle, but I don't want to fall victim to the normalcy bias. Maybe I will ask cops. Lol.