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Beer Hounds wrote:
Captain90s wrote:
Beer Hounds wrote:
Unicorn wrote:

Carry whatever you're comfortable with, but don't make statements about how hard it is to remember to put your weapon on fire.


Maybe. But I know for a fact it is easier to not have to remember a safety, than it is to have to remember one.


That's like saying "it's easier to drive an automatic than a manual". Ok, sure, it may be true, but does that make the automatic the better vehicle? Not necessarily. Basically, what's your point?


Um, yeah, uh...I think you missed the point. I will rephrase for you.

The extra step of having to take a gun off of safety, no matter how many times you practiced changing the tv without looking at the remote, will always take longer than not having to take the gun off safety. You can take all the practice you want, but see if adrenaline and nerves do not play a factor when your sweaty palms slip over your over oiled safety and it fails to come off safe. And yes, I am a Glock fan boy. Can you tell?


Actually, you hit the safety on you upward stroke when bringing the firearm to bear. So no, there isn't any more time spent. I'd be happy to demonstrate for you sometime, if we ever end up at a group shoot together. It's a very simple flick of the thumb while the pistol is already in motion. There is no extra time. As far as the greasy grip theory, that same argument would have people carrying great knobby rubbery agressive grips only if it was really an issue. But it just isn't. On a combat gun, maybe. But on a defensive handgun, not really.

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Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:49 pm
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Guns are dangerous.

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Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:36 pm
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Beer Hounds wrote:
Captain90s wrote:
Beer Hounds wrote:
Unicorn wrote:

Carry whatever you're comfortable with, but don't make statements about how hard it is to remember to put your weapon on fire.


Maybe. But I know for a fact it is easier to not have to remember a safety, than it is to have to remember one.


That's like saying "it's easier to drive an automatic than a manual". Ok, sure, it may be true, but does that make the automatic the better vehicle? Not necessarily. Basically, what's your point?


Um, yeah, uh...I think you missed the point. I will rephrase for you.

The extra step of having to take a gun off of safety, no matter how many times you practiced changing the tv without looking at the remote, will always take longer than not having to take the gun off safety. You can take all the practice you want, but see if adrenaline and nerves do not play a factor when your sweaty palms slip over your over oiled safety and it fails to come off safe. And yes, I am a Glock fan boy. Can you tell?



It comes down to muscle memory and training. When I carried a Glock my thumb would still be moving to take off the safety... I only noticed it because there wasn't a safety and my thumb was only hitting air. Just like driving, you aren't looking at the two pedals are you? How do you know which pedal to hit when a kid runs into the street in front of you? Hope your wet shoes don't slip off your rubber pedals. How do people manage to drive standards? And do it quickly, safely, and without stalling? Repetition... do it until you don't have to think about it.
If manual safeties were so dangerous then how many servicemembers have we gotten killed in the last century because they forgot to take them off? Again, it's a matter of training and muscle memory.

I don't know how many times it took me to not have to think about the safety. If you're going to carry something, or do anything that involves risk you should probably consider doing some training. Even if it did take thousands of times, that's not all that much if you practice drawing your unloaded gun while watching a TV show, or when watching the latest Youtube moron.


Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:12 pm
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Full mag, loaded chamber, safety on.


Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:46 am
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phorsfall wrote:
... and that carrying in Battery scares him.

THIS is the first problem your friend needs to address. If he doesn't get his mind right, the training/performance under combat stress differences are going to be moot.


Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:20 am
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Drawing on an active attack at less than 5 feet a case of wishful thinking in condition 1 OR condition 3.

The video with the girl.
The first time through, she grabs for the gun BEFORE he pulls the knife. (Time Code 0:07) Like a person should. She is ready to take action. Attacher has both hands under his shirt, his attack is VERY obvious.
The second time, (time code 1:23) she has her hands away from the gun in front of her body, she has to reach for the gun, then draw it and try to rack it. The Attacker has the knife up his sleeve this time and the attach is very subtle until it hits, and she doesn't see it coming until late.
The drill is a good one but the responses should not be compared as apple to apples. One has a set ready stance, the other does not. One has an obvious attack, the other does not.

The second video should be called, "Buy a real gun you idiot"
AFTER he is shot at point blank range........He racks the slide not once, not twice, but three times and does not appear to fire a single shot.
(Was it even loaded?)
Anyone willing to test how well your firearm works AFTER I shoot you at PBR? Anyone at all?

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Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:47 pm
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On the topic of safeties taking longer to deploy I call BS, safety should be off on the draw not when you have the gun up.

I believe that whatever carry method or "condition" you choose it really just boils down to training and being honest with yourself about your abilities so you can choose a proper course of action (use your fists, run, blow rape whistle, get the guy talking to dull reaction speed) to allow you to survive long enough to deploy your firearm.

Also to answer the OP, I junk carry a G19 and its always in whatever condition having a round chambered is.

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Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:37 pm
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General Nonsense wrote:
Also, in my experience, guns are more likely to jam or malfunction while racking the slide. What if it sticks, what if you don't pull it back all the way, what if your hand slips, think about when you go to the range, just stovepipe, FTF, or FTE only after you fire and the slide operates, sure, that can happen in a defensive scenario, but you will at least be able to get one well placed shot before it happens. These are all things that can make a difference between getting a clean shot, or not getting a shot. With one already in the chamber, you take out those opportunities for failure.


This is exactly the point any lesser experienced shooter should really let drive home. Lack of experience and adding extra steps (ie. drop the safety then rack the slide) are a BAD combination that can and will lead to human/mechanical error.

So as a lesser experienced shooter you don't trust yourself to carry chambered. But you do trust yourself to remember these procedures in the heat of the moment? That makes no sense, no sense at all.

Glocked and loaded here; no thumb break or fancy retention. Just common sense.

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Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:00 pm
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sinus211 wrote:
General Nonsense wrote:
Also, in my experience, guns are more likely to jam or malfunction while racking the slide. What if it sticks, what if you don't pull it back all the way, what if your hand slips, think about when you go to the range, just stovepipe, FTF, or FTE only after you fire and the slide operates, sure, that can happen in a defensive scenario, but you will at least be able to get one well placed shot before it happens. These are all things that can make a difference between getting a clean shot, or not getting a shot. With one already in the chamber, you take out those opportunities for failure.


This is exactly the point any lesser experienced shooter should really let drive home. Lack of experience and adding extra steps (ie. drop the safety then rack the slide) are a BAD combination that can and will lead to human/mechanical error.

So as a lesser experienced shooter you don't trust yourself to carry chambered. But you do trust yourself to remember these procedures in the heat of the moment? That makes no sense, no sense at all.

Glocked and loaded here; no thumb break or fancy retention. Just common sense.


+ 1

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Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:47 pm
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Glock 19 during winter with 1 in the tube also...

During summer I have an XDs .45 also 1 in the tube.

I've taught my household to think that every gun has 1 in the barrel. Always. How did I do that? Keeping 1 in the chamber, in every gun.

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Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:05 am
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Rusoarmo wrote:
Glock 19 during winter with 1 in the tube also...

During summer I have an XDs .45 also 1 in the tube.

I've taught my household to think that every gun has 1 in the barrel. Always. How did I do that? Keeping 1 in the chamber, in every gun.


You mean you don't have one of those fancy loaded chamber indicators to tell you your gun is loaded? What if you forget? :ROFLMAO:

The only time my pistol is not loaded, is when I am cleaning it. Which is not that often.


Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:52 am
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phorsfall wrote:
Just curious how many of us actually carry in Battery?


all the time.

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Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:55 am
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Yes. OC loaded too… otherwise why carry at all?

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Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:21 pm
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IMO, it ALL depends on a persons willingness to Commit to living a Concealed Carry Lifestyle, which SHOULD and DOES Include Training AND Practice. A person scared to carry a firearm with a round chambered should probably be thinking Real Hard about whether they should be carrying at all (No Offense).
Just an example of how Quickly things can go wrong from my training... I remember the first time I was introduced to the Philosophy of the Tueller Drill in a Handgun/Knife Combo Defense class. The first time I really understood that an AVERAGE Human, not an Athlete, can cover a 21 ft. span in under 1.5 seconds was quite an Eye Opener. Especially in the Shoot House when I was attacked with a 11" Bowie Knife only escaping Death by stumbling and falling behind cover in shear Panic. I barely cleared the Holster after being caught off guard. I can't IMAGINE having to chamber a round in the process, too. A tap/rack/bang is bad enough to deal with under pressure. A tap/rack/to make it go bang in the first place is a recipe for disaster... IMO....


Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:35 pm
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BumeStik wrote:
IMO, it ALL depends on a persons willingness to Commit to living a Concealed Carry Lifestyle, which SHOULD and DOES Include Training AND Practice. A person scared to carry a firearm with a round chambered should probably be thinking Real Hard about whether they should be carrying at all (No Offense).
Just an example of how Quickly things can go wrong from my training... I remember the first time I was introduced to the Philosophy of the Tueller Drill in a Handgun/Knife Combo Defense class. The first time I really understood that an AVERAGE Human, not an Athlete, can cover a 21 ft. span in under 1.5 seconds was quite an Eye Opener. Especially in the Shoot House when I was attacked with a 11" Bowie Knife only escaping Death by stumbling and falling behind cover in shear Panic. I barely cleared the Holster after being caught off guard. I can't IMAGINE having to chamber a round in the process, too. A tap/rack/bang is bad enough to deal with under pressure. A tap/rack/to make it go bang in the first place is a recipe for disaster... IMO....


Couldn't agree more. It seems to be a very common idea that the process of racking the slide to put a round in the pipe isn't going to be enough extra time to make a difference. When I was in the Army, shoot houses were fun. But the little amount of time you had to react to a threat, and the mindset you are in, it makes it 1 less thing you have to worry about prior to engaging a target.

I carry one in the pipe all the time.


Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:38 pm
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