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It is currently Wed Apr 24, 2024 11:40 am
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Annalee
Location: Edmonds, WA Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 Posts: 422
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I'm attending a performance at a community college tonight. (I'm not a student). It's legal for me to do so, correct? Same kind of deal as a store that asks you not to carry, but if you do, you simply get asked to leave?
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Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:20 am |
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Massivedesign
Site Admin
Location: Olympia, WA Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 Posts: 38309
Real Name: Dan
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Annalee wrote: I'm attending a performance at a community college tonight. (I'm not a student). It's legal for me to do so, correct? Same kind of deal as a store that asks you not to carry, but if you do, you simply get asked to leave? Correct... Nothing illegal, but they can ask you to leave (how, I am not sure since it is still public property... But that's your battle if you choose to fight it). Now, if this performance is being put on exclusively by a K-12 grade school, then it gets a little trickier.
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Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:39 am |
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daihideo
Location: Kent Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 Posts: 5
Real Name: Steven
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I attended Green River Community College last year. A student was arrested because he brought a firearm in his backpack. I'm pretty sure it's against the law to bring any weapon on school property even if your legally able to conceal carry, since the property is considered federal property. That's why a college like UW or WSU can be different in the rules since they are private (correct me if I'm wrong). I'd contact the school dean and ask them personally about it to get a confirmation if it is allowed on their premises though. This is out of their student code of conduct book. "(18) Weapons and fireworks. Possession or use of fireworks anywhere on campus; possession, holding, wearing, transporting, storage or presence of any firearm, dagger, sword, knife, or any other cutting or stabbing instrument, or club, or incendiary device, or explosive, or any facsimile weapons, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm and/or property damage is prohibited on the college campus, subject to the following exceptions: (a) Commissioned law enforcement personnel, legally authorized military personnel, or bank-related security personnel required by their office to carry such weapons or devices. (b) Possession or use of disabling chemical sprays when used for self-defense. (c) The president may authorize possession of a weapon on campus upon a showing that the weapon is reasonably related to a legitimate pedagogical purpose. Such permission shall be in writing and shall be subject to such terms or conditions incorporated in the written permission." http://www.greenriver.edu/Documents/stu ... onduct.pdf (page 14)
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Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:46 pm |
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oldkim
Site Supporter
Location: Maple Valley, WA Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 9271
Real Name: Young
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Please note.
Rule versus Law.
The citation is their code of conduct "RULE" for students.
The Law - legal conceal carry (CPL) in Washington State does not include colleges as places you CAN'T carry.
K-12 school - NO
So as a student of any college... if you don't follow their rule... you may become a NON student of that school.
Also do you know if that student that got "arrested" was of age and had a CPL?
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Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:53 pm |
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ANZAC
Site Supporter
Location: 12 Acres in Eastern WA Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 Posts: 7251
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daihideo wrote: I attended Green River Community College last year. A student was arrested because he brought a firearm in his backpack. I'm pretty sure it's against the law to bring any weapon on school property even if your legally able to conceal carry, since the property is considered federal property. While they get federal aid, I don't believe they are considered federal buildings. I also refer you to the WAC: http://app.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx? ... 2J-155-010Quote: Green River College is an educational institution provided and maintained by the people of the state of Washington. Also the first page of the document you posted! Quote: Green River College, an agency of the state of Washington,
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Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:59 pm |
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Guntrader
In Memoriam
Location: Mukilteoish Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 Posts: 11595
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If an employee, you can be fired. If a student, can be expelled. If a current or former student, can withhold your transcripts, which could really suck. If just a guy off the street, they have to ask you to leave else can be arrested for trespass.
_________________ NRA Endowment Member. How did they know my member was well endowed?
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Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:06 pm |
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kf7mjf
Site Supporter
Location: Olympia Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 Posts: 16044
Real Name: Steve
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And I'm not sure they have the legal authority to ask a private citizen who is legally armed to leave.
_________________ "I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said." - William Buckley, Jr.
"...steam, artillery and revolvers give to civilized man an irresistible power." -Perry Collins
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Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:09 pm |
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Guntrader
In Memoriam
Location: Mukilteoish Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 Posts: 11595
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Only two community colleges in WA permit carry on campus with a CPL, and GRCC aint one of them. All pretty much the same. Employees and students are gone, others would be arrested if don't leave when asked. But they have to ask you. Not sure if any employee can ask, or if it has to be an administrator or security. One of my crimefighter groups meets at a CC. They are used to people in our group carrying guns, security doesn't bat an eye.
WAC Sections 132J-141-010 Prohibited activities.
132J-141-010 Prohibited activities. It shall be prohibited on or in property either owned, controlled or operated by Green River College, District No. 10, for anyone to use or have on his/her person firearms or solid explosives, except duly commissioned law enforcement officers and other individuals who receive written prior approval from the president of the college or his designee. Sanctions for violations of this rule may include, but are not limited to, suspension, dismissal and/or expulsion or removal from campus. [Statutory Authority: RCW 28B.50.140 and 34.02.353 [34.05.353]. WSR 15-15-071, § 132J-141-010, filed 7/13/15, effective 8/13/15; Permanent and Emergency Order 75-3, § 132J-141-010, filed 12/16/75.]
_________________ NRA Endowment Member. How did they know my member was well endowed?
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Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:20 pm |
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oldkim
Site Supporter
Location: Maple Valley, WA Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 9271
Real Name: Young
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Quote: Title 132A Peninsula College
Title 132B Grays Harbor College
Title 132C Olympic College
Title 132D Skagit Valley College
Title 132E Everett Community College
Title 132F Seattle Colleges
Title 132G Shoreline Community College
Title 132H Bellevue College
Title 132I Highline College
Title 132J Green River College
Title 132K Pierce College
Title 132L Centralia College
Title 132M Lower Columbia College
Title 132N Clark College
Title 132P Yakima Valley Community College
Title 132Q Spokane Community College/Spokane Falls Community College
Title 132R Big Bend Community College
Title 132S Columbia Basin College
Title 132T Walla Walla Community College
Title 132U Whatcom Community College
Title 132V Tacoma Community College
Title 132W Wenatchee Valley College
Title 132X South Puget Sound Community College
Title 132Y Edmonds Community College
Title 132Z Cascadia College
Title 478 University of Washington
Title 516 Western Washington University
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspxFor example: Pennisula College Quote: WAC 132A-150-020
Firearms, explosives, and dangerous chemicals restrictions. No person shall have in his or her possession on college owned or leased property any guns (including shotguns, rifles, pistols, air guns and pellet guns), firearms, explosives, dangerous chemicals, or other dangerous weapons or instruments. Violation is grounds for disciplinary and/or legal action. Excepted are as follows:
(1) Authorized law enforcement officers carrying guns while engaged in regular duties;
(2) Activities requiring the use of prohibited items, subject to the president's approval.
[Statutory Authority: RCW 28B.50.140 and chapter 28B.50 RCW. WSR 99-15-072, § 132A-150-020, filed 7/20/99, effective 8/20/99.] http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx ... 2A-150-020Let's review.... RCWQuote: Revised Code of Washington (RCW) The Revised Code of Washington (RCW) is the compilation of all permanent laws now in force. It is a collection of Session Laws (enacted by the Legislature, and signed by the Governor, or enacted via the initiative process), arranged by topic, with amendments added and repealed laws removed. It does not include temporary laws such as appropriations acts. The official version of the RCW is published by the Statute Law Committee and the Code Reviser. http://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/Let's review... WACQuote: Washington Administrative Code (WAC)
Regulations of executive branch agencies are issued by authority of statutes. Like legislation and the Constitution, regulations are a source of primary law in Washington State. The WAC codifies the regulations and arranges them by subject or agency. http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/So what is the difference between a WAC and RCW?Quote: RCW are statutes, passed by the state legislature or by vote of the people. (legislative branch) WAC are administrative regulations, or rules, adopted by state agencies. (executive branch)
RCWs can affect the entire population, or just a group. WACs govern the state agency.
For example, let's say the state legislature passes a law regulating the manufacture of widgets, called the Widget Management Act. (WMA) They either create an agency to enforce the law, or they direct an existing state agency to enforce that law. We'll say they created the Department of Widget Management (DWM). The legislature will then instruct the director of DWM to create rules for how the agency is going to manage widgets in Washington, and the legislature will say how much authority the agency will have. The DWM can't make a rule that goes into the scope of another agency's authority. There is a separate rulemaking process that the agency will follow to create its rules, within the authority granted by the legislature. http://pnwriders.com/threads/rcw-vs-wac.163137/Another good link - http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showt ... RCW-vs-WAC
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Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:46 pm |
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kf7mjf
Site Supporter
Location: Olympia Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 Posts: 16044
Real Name: Steve
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The WACs for a college generally only govern those attending there or employed there.
_________________ "I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said." - William Buckley, Jr.
"...steam, artillery and revolvers give to civilized man an irresistible power." -Perry Collins
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Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:50 pm |
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Guntrader
In Memoriam
Location: Mukilteoish Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 Posts: 11595
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Seems pretty clear to me:
Regulations of executive branch agencies are issued by authority of statutes. Like legislation and the Constitution, regulations are a source of primary law in Washington State.
It shall be prohibited on or in property either owned, controlled or operated by Green River College, District No. 10, for anyone to use or have on his/her person firearms or solid explosives, except duly commissioned law enforcement officers and other individuals who receive written prior approval from the president of the college or his designee.
_________________ NRA Endowment Member. How did they know my member was well endowed?
Last edited by Guntrader on Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:54 pm |
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oldkim
Site Supporter
Location: Maple Valley, WA Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 9271
Real Name: Young
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kf7mjf wrote: The WACs for a college generally only govern those attending there or employed there. "Rule" versus "Law"...
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Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:54 pm |
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oldkim
Site Supporter
Location: Maple Valley, WA Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 9271
Real Name: Young
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Guntrader wrote: Seems pretty clear to me:
It shall be prohibited on or in property either owned, controlled or operated by Green River College, District No. 10, for anyone to use or have on his/her person firearms or solid explosives, except duly commissioned law enforcement officers and other individuals who receive written prior approval from the president of the college or his designee. Please take the time to understand... Rule versus "Law" I'll repost... with a bit clearer... Quote: " LAW" RCW are statutes, passed by the state legislature or by vote of the people. (legislative branch) " RULE" WAC are administrative regulations, or rules, adopted by state agencies. (executive branch) RCWs can affect the entire population, or just a group. WACs govern the state agency. For example, let's say the state legislature passes a law regulating the manufacture of widgets, called the Widget Management Act. (WMA) They either create an agency to enforce the law, or they direct an existing state agency to enforce that law. We'll say they created the Department of Widget Management (DWM). The legislature will then instruct the director of DWM to create rules for how the agency is going to manage widgets in Washington, and the legislature will say how much authority the agency will have. The DWM can't make a rule that goes into the scope of another agency's authority. There is a separate rulemaking process that the agency will follow to create its rules, within the authority granted by the legislature. http://pnwriders.com/threads/rcw-vs-wac.163137/
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Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:56 pm |
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kf7mjf
Site Supporter
Location: Olympia Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 Posts: 16044
Real Name: Steve
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Guntrader wrote: Seems pretty clear to me:
Regulations of executive branch agencies are issued by authority of statutes. Like legislation and the Constitution, regulations are a source of primary law in Washington State.
It shall be prohibited on or in property either owned, controlled or operated by Green River College, District No. 10, for anyone to use or have on his/her person firearms or solid explosives, except duly commissioned law enforcement officers and other individuals who receive written prior approval from the president of the college or his designee. Note use of the word "Generally" in my prior statement which is different from an absolutist statement. Note further the distinction between rule or law, and the further distinction on if a rule can be enforced on persons who have not bound themselves to the rules of that rule making authority.
_________________ "I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said." - William Buckley, Jr.
"...steam, artillery and revolvers give to civilized man an irresistible power." -Perry Collins
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Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:00 pm |
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mislabeled
Site Supporter
Location: N-Sno Joined: Thu Oct 3, 2013 Posts: 4015
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Your thread title implies you'll be carrying concealed. Who's gonna know?
_________________ "Hmmm. I've been looking for a way to serve the community that incorporates my violence." -- Leela
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Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:51 pm |
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