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Location: Tacoma
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So... Yeah.

Talking with friends and trying to figure out the... "language" used in this crap, we are trying to figure out... So bringing questions here in hopes of someone else knowing...

1: What constitutes safe/secure storage under this heap? They mention trigger locks, but is that all? Is a locked hard case ok? Do i need to buy a damn safe?

2: Quibble on this one, How do they intend to prove a weapon was safely or unsafely stored? If a locked hard case is ok, what happens if its stolen? Someone busts the lock on your door and just walks off with it and everything else, then pops the locks or whatever and then uses it. How are you suppose to prove that the weapon was secure if its been stolen? How are they suppose to prove it Wasnt if some asshat claims his rifle that was actually sitting out on a shelf without a lock or anything on it but when someone walks off with it, claims that "nono. I had like, 20 locks on it. all of them super good." Where does the burden of proof lie?

Hope some people here have some ideas of how this crap is suppose to work.. Cause we got no idea and want some.


Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:29 am
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There are some other threads in a subforum that shall remain nameless that address this.


Last edited by Guns4Liberty on Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:43 am
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TheLaughingOne wrote:
So... Yeah.

Talking with friends and trying to figure out the... "language" used in this crap, we are trying to figure out... So bringing questions here in hopes of someone else knowing...

1: What constitutes safe/secure storage under this heap? They mention trigger locks, but is that all? Is a locked hard case ok? Do i need to buy a damn safe?

2: Quibble on this one, How do they intend to prove a weapon was safely or unsafely stored? If a locked hard case is ok, what happens if its stolen? Someone busts the lock on your door and just walks off with it and everything else, then pops the locks or whatever and then uses it. How are you suppose to prove that the weapon was secure if its been stolen? How are they suppose to prove it Wasnt if some asshat claims his rifle that was actually sitting out on a shelf without a lock or anything on it but when someone walks off with it, claims that "nono. I had like, 20 locks on it. all of them super good." Where does the burden of proof lie?

Hope some people here have some ideas of how this crap is suppose to work.. Cause we got no idea and want some.



The burden of proof always lies in the hands of the prosecutor. At least that's the way it's written in the Constitution.

Sticking strictly to the point you raised, if it's possible for someone to break in and walk off with any of your firearms without leaving some clear evidence you tried to secure it (Safe, Chain/Cable, etc) you might want to reconsider your method of securing.

Want to steal my firearms (other than the one in my possession pretty much at all times) a good sized chunk of my garage floor will be missing too and it will take hours to get that far.

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Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:44 am
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Safe storage, like "mental illness" or "firearms training" are not defined in the initiative in a way that appears clearly understandable/legally actionable.
This is apparently by design. Result: chilling effect on lawful firearms owners, full employment for lawyers, and increased revenue (though not likely above increased cost) for the gubmint.


Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:46 am
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deadshot2 wrote:
Sticking strictly to the point you raised, if it's possible for someone to break in and walk off with any of your firearms without leaving some clear evidence you tried to secure it (Safe, Chain/Cable, etc) you might want to reconsider your method of securing.

Want to steal my firearms (other than the one in my possession pretty much at all times) a good sized chunk of my garage floor will be missing too and it will take hours to get that far.


I agree. Better bring heavy equipment to leave with mine.

If you own firearms and don't own some form of safe, you are most likely brain dead.

Might as well leave your car parked with the keys in it to and then blame the thieves when its missing.

"Common Sense" please.


Last edited by Old Growth on Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:59 am
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If such ambiguities lead to an effective ban, we are harmed. Bingo lawsuit.

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Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:00 am
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Old Growth wrote:
deadshot2 wrote:
Sticking strictly to the point you raised, if it's possible for someone to break in and walk off with any of your firearms without leaving some clear evidence you tried to secure it (Safe, Chain/Cable, etc) you might want to reconsider your method of securing.

Want to steal my firearms (other than the one in my possession pretty much at all times) a good sized chunk of my garage floor will be missing too and it will take hours to get that far.


I agree. Better bring heavy equipment to leave with mine.

If you own firearms and don't own some form of safe, you are most likely brain dead.

Might as well leave your car parked with the keys in it to and then blame the thieves when its missing.

"Common Sense" please.


When I was house hunting last year, I can think of more than one occasion where we peeked in a closet and there were several long guns vertically stacked. No gun safe anywhere in the house.

I've pointed this out in several recent posts...we here are gun enthusiasts who, by and large, do things the right way because we have a ton to lose if we don't. We have really nice firearms that we would miss if they were stolen. We have a hobby and a passion that we would lose if we were convicted of a felony or violent misdemeanor. However, the vast majority of gun owners are not enthusiasts and, while as an aggregate are safer and more responsible than non-gun owners, they do stupid things.

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Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:58 pm
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deadshot2 wrote:
TheLaughingOne wrote:
So... Yeah.

Talking with friends and trying to figure out the... "language" used in this crap, we are trying to figure out... So bringing questions here in hopes of someone else knowing...

1: What constitutes safe/secure storage under this heap? They mention trigger locks, but is that all? Is a locked hard case ok? Do i need to buy a damn safe?

2: Quibble on this one, How do they intend to prove a weapon was safely or unsafely stored? If a locked hard case is ok, what happens if its stolen? Someone busts the lock on your door and just walks off with it and everything else, then pops the locks or whatever and then uses it. How are you suppose to prove that the weapon was secure if its been stolen? How are they suppose to prove it Wasnt if some asshat claims his rifle that was actually sitting out on a shelf without a lock or anything on it but when someone walks off with it, claims that "nono. I had like, 20 locks on it. all of them super good." Where does the burden of proof lie?

Hope some people here have some ideas of how this crap is suppose to work.. Cause we got no idea and want some.



The burden of proof always lies in the hands of the prosecutor. At least that's the way it's written in the Constitution.

Sticking strictly to the point you raised, if it's possible for someone to break in and walk off with any of your firearms without leaving some clear evidence you tried to secure it (Safe, Chain/Cable, etc) you might want to reconsider your method of securing.

Want to steal my firearms (other than the one in my possession pretty much at all times) a good sized chunk of my garage floor will be missing too and it will take hours to get that far.


Old Growth wrote:
deadshot2 wrote:
Sticking strictly to the point you raised, if it's possible for someone to break in and walk off with any of your firearms without leaving some clear evidence you tried to secure it (Safe, Chain/Cable, etc) you might want to reconsider your method of securing.

Want to steal my firearms (other than the one in my possession pretty much at all times) a good sized chunk of my garage floor will be missing too and it will take hours to get that far.


I agree. Better bring heavy equipment to leave with mine.

If you own firearms and don't own some form of safe, you are most likely brain dead.

Might as well leave your car parked with the keys in it to and then blame the thieves when its missing.

"Common Sense" please.


hkcavalier wrote:
Old Growth wrote:
deadshot2 wrote:
Sticking strictly to the point you raised, if it's possible for someone to break in and walk off with any of your firearms without leaving some clear evidence you tried to secure it (Safe, Chain/Cable, etc) you might want to reconsider your method of securing.

Want to steal my firearms (other than the one in my possession pretty much at all times) a good sized chunk of my garage floor will be missing too and it will take hours to get that far.


I agree. Better bring heavy equipment to leave with mine.

If you own firearms and don't own some form of safe, you are most likely brain dead.

Might as well leave your car parked with the keys in it to and then blame the thieves when its missing.

"Common Sense" please.


When I was house hunting last year, I can think of more than one occasion where we peeked in a closet and there were several long guns vertically stacked. No gun safe anywhere in the house.

I've pointed this out in several recent posts...we here are gun enthusiasts who, by and large, do things the right way because we have a ton to lose if we don't. We have really nice firearms that we would miss if they were stolen. We have a hobby and a passion that we would lose if we were convicted of a felony or violent misdemeanor. However, the vast majority of gun owners are not enthusiasts and, while as an aggregate are safer and more responsible than non-gun owners, they do stupid things.


A safe would be great and all, but i live in a studio apartment thats about 320 square feet, (not counting internal walls), and while i can afford a couple decent guns after a god bit of saving, getting a "portable" bank vault that costs twice what both my guns together cust isnt exactly something affordable or realistic for my situation.

That said im not just having them lean up in the closet in the open, trigger lock & cable lock, and in a good hard case with 4 locks on each sealing it. I'd love to get the flood dug out and have a secret bank vault installed, but property manager might object to that.

And thanks to a couple of you. Condescending arrogance is always helpful when coming asking for help, advice, and clarification.


Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:21 pm
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Safe storage suggestion.

Move to another state and rid yourself of the oppression of Washington.

God forbid you have any need for self defense with a firearm, or if one is stolen and used, you won't be getting any sympathy from Washington juries who don't even think you should OWN guns.

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Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:27 pm
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Having a 1 ton safe sounds great, but not conducive to having firearms secured yet readily available. Someone I know has a bedside safe bolted to the wall behind the headboard, but not impossible to get away with for someone determined enough and properly equipped. He can’t carry all his guns at once, nor has the funds or space for a large safe. Safes are not impenetrable either.

Ultimately, I think this is unenforceable just like 594.


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Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:14 pm
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This law may actually result in the under or non-reporting of stolen firearms. If you have a gun stolen that is not traceable to you (private sale pre 594) the downside to reporting it is likely worse than the upside of having it returned or paid for by insurance.

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Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:27 pm
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You dont need a one ton safe, just a brain.

If you have a couple simple guns then hide them somewhere creative with a trigger lock when noton your person. Then put an EMPTY cheap crappy little shoebox/firesafe under your kitchen table with a few Ruger and S&W stickers on it.
Image

Thief breaks in, grabs easy target, cant believe his luck and vamooses.


Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:43 pm
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Given the lack of specifics I’m pretty sure you just need to place a decoder ring on the gun in question.

Seriously: “lock up your guns” means what?

Pretty sure any attempt to lock it will cover you under this stupid law.


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Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:23 pm
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While I have multiple safes, A locked door is all you should need. Unless you have kids. It us not my fault someone committed a felony and victimized me. If someone steals your car and creates a fatal accident, are you at fault. This shit wont hold up in a criminal Court.


Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:26 am
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You guys realize there are videos online on how to disable almost any safe in minutes right? And if that isnt easy enough an angle grinder will get the job done pretty well too.

What about those of us with guns too long for a safe?


Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:40 pm
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