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 Questions about the new law on P80 builds? 
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Location: Seattle, WA
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Im new to doing these builds, forgive me if Im asking the wrong question or misunderstand something along the lines of P80. If I understand the new approaching law correctly. If a P80 is built it needs to have a serial number.

If I have one built, then Im suppose to get it serialized. After that do I need to fill out a 4473?

If I buy one after July 1 or have one now thats not built do I have to get it serialized and on a 4473 before I build it?



:cheers2:

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Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:23 am
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Order now. Don't sweat it.

That law is an ass in more ways than one. Read it slowly, find the thread about it. You as an owner can build P80's.

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Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:58 am
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USAF17 wrote:
If I understand the new approaching law correctly. If a P80 is built it needs to have a serial number.


That’s not correct.

Please quote the part of the law that you’re looking at.

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Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:49 am
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MadPick wrote:
USAF17 wrote:
If I understand the new approaching law correctly. If a P80 is built it needs to have a serial number.


That’s not correct.

Please quote the part of the law that you’re looking at.


Again forgive me if Im asking the wrong question or misunderstand something along the lines of P80. If this bill didn't pass, was overturned or will not go into affect please let me know.

HB 1739
http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/ ... H%2019.pdf

"Untraceable firearms generally refer to firearms that do not have a serial number, resulting in an inability to trace the chain of distribution. "
"Effective Date: The bill contains an emergency clause and takes effect July 1, 2019."

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Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:08 am
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Right. That’s the definition.

But there’s no part that says you can’t possess an untraceable firearm, is there?

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Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:58 am
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MadPick wrote:
Right. That’s the definition.

But there’s no part that says you can’t possess an untraceable firearm, is there?


There was a vague part about certain exceptions. So I go back to my original questions I ask to clarify. Simply put (yeah, laws are never written simply and to the point) do I need to get a serial number or not for an P80? Frustrating part is Ive ask a few places and no one knows for sure.

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Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:33 pm
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USAF17 wrote:
MadPick wrote:
Right. That’s the definition.

But there’s no part that says you can’t possess an untraceable firearm, is there?


There was a vague part about certain exceptions. So I go back to my original questions I ask to clarify. Simply put (yeah, laws are never written simply and to the point) do I need to get a serial number or not for an P80? Frustrating part is Ive ask a few places and no one knows for sure.

My take on it is no, you don't. I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. Your mileage may vary. Void where prohibited. See store for details.


Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:36 pm
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USAF17 wrote:
MadPick wrote:
Right. That’s the definition.

But there’s no part that says you can’t possess an untraceable firearm, is there?


There was a vague part about certain exceptions. So I go back to my original questions I ask to clarify. Simply put (yeah, laws are never written simply and to the point) do I need to get a serial number or not for an P80? Frustrating part is Ive ask a few places and no one knows for sure.

Madpick did answer your question. He said it was incorrect then asked you to provide in the law that stated otherwise. You did not. So what part of the law makes you think you need a serial number? A definition of what an untracable firearm is doesn't mean you have to put a number on it.

So what is the vauge part that makes you think otherwise?


Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:17 pm
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^ Exactly. Thanks, Drew.

USAF17, it probably seems like I'm being kind of difficult just saying, "show me the law" or whatever. However, we (not just WaGuns, but the whole gun community) seem to have a recurring problem of people stating "facts" without the law to back them up, and those erroneous facts get taken at face value and then repeated elsewhere.

I've done some of this myself, so I'm guilty too -- but I'm learning.

So even though I answered your question (no, you don't need to serialize it), I would strongly suggest that you look at the actual law, copy/paste the relevant parts into the thread here, and then we can discuss and see if we all interpret it the same way.

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Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:45 pm
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He is referring to this section:
Not sure this bill has been passed into law as of now:

"Untraceable firearm" means any firearm manufactured after July 1, 2019, that is not an antique firearm and that cannot be traced by law enforcement by means of a serial number affixed to the firearm by a federally licensed manufacturer or importer.

Possession does not appear to be the issue....

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Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:15 pm
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MadPick wrote:
^ Exactly. Thanks, Drew.

USAF17, it probably seems like I'm being kind of difficult just saying, "show me the law" or whatever. However, we (not just WaGuns, but the whole gun community) seem to have a recurring problem of people stating "facts" without the law to back them up, and those erroneous facts get taken at face value and then repeated elsewhere.

I've done some of this myself, so I'm guilty too -- but I'm learning.

So even though I answered your question (no, you don't need to serialize it), I would strongly suggest that you look at the actual law, copy/paste the relevant parts into the thread here, and then we can discuss and see if we all interpret it the same way.


I agree with this approach. ESPECIALLY this Law. I thought there was some flaw , something I was missing. It did not hit me, until really slowed down and parsed the whole thing. Sub-statement by sub-statement.

Ya just have to do it.

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Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:49 pm
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Nitro_Guns wrote:
He is referring to this section:
Not sure this bill has been passed into law as of now:

"Untraceable firearm" means any firearm manufactured after July 1, 2019, that is not an antique firearm and that cannot be traced by law enforcement by means of a serial number affixed to the firearm by a federally licensed manufacturer or importer.

Possession does not appear to be the issue....

And once again I'll stick my nose under the tent.
NO ONE IN HELL CAN TELL ME WHEN I MANUFACTURED IT!

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Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:50 pm
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AR15L wrote:
Nitro_Guns wrote:
He is referring to this section:
Not sure this bill has been passed into law as of now:

"Untraceable firearm" means any firearm manufactured after July 1, 2019, that is not an antique firearm and that cannot be traced by law enforcement by means of a serial number affixed to the firearm by a federally licensed manufacturer or importer.

Possession does not appear to be the issue....

And once again I'll stick my nose under the tent.
NO ONE IN HELL CAN TELL ME WHEN I MANUFACTURED IT!


NO ONE EVER SAID THEY COULD..... :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

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Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:53 pm
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Quote:
Manufacturing, Owning, Buying, Selling, Loaning, Furnishing, Transporting, or Possessing.
With some exceptions, it is unlawful for a person to: manufacture, own, buy, sell, loan,
furnish, transport, or have in possession or control, any undetectable firearm or any part
designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in an undetectable firearm; or assemble
or repair an undetectable firearm. A violation is a class C felony ranked at seriousness level
III under the SRA. Undetectable firearms that are illegally held or illegally possessed are
contraband subject to immediate seizure by law enforcement.
It is unlawful for a person to manufacture an untraceable firearm with the intent to sell the
untraceable firearm.
A violation is a class C felony ranked at seriousness level III under the
SRA.

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Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:57 pm
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Nitro_Guns wrote:
He is referring to this section:
Not sure this bill has been passed into law as of now:

"Untraceable firearm" means any firearm manufactured after July 1, 2019, that is not an antique firearm and that cannot be traced by law enforcement by means of a serial number affixed to the firearm by a federally licensed manufacturer or importer.

Possession does not appear to be the issue....

That is still just a definition of an untraceable firearm. Does it state that possession of one is illegal?


Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:03 pm
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