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Nothing contained in this section shall be construed as legal advice. All members and guests are advised to perform due diligence in regards to laws and legal actions.
Questions about the new law on P80 builds?
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USAF17
Location: Seattle, WA Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 Posts: 15
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Im new to doing these builds, forgive me if Im asking the wrong question or misunderstand something along the lines of P80. If I understand the new approaching law correctly. If a P80 is built it needs to have a serial number. If I have one built, then Im suppose to get it serialized. After that do I need to fill out a 4473? If I buy one after July 1 or have one now thats not built do I have to get it serialized and on a 4473 before I build it?
_________________ Go Hawks
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Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:23 am |
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Pablo
Site Supporter
Location: Everson, WA Joined: Sun Jan 6, 2013 Posts: 28149
Real Name: Ace Winky
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Order now. Don't sweat it.
That law is an ass in more ways than one. Read it slowly, find the thread about it. You as an owner can build P80's.
_________________ Why does the Penguin in Batman sound like a duck?
Because the eagle sounds like a hawk.
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Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:58 am |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 51917
Real Name: Steve
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USAF17 wrote: If I understand the new approaching law correctly. If a P80 is built it needs to have a serial number. That’s not correct. Please quote the part of the law that you’re looking at.
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:49 am |
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USAF17
Location: Seattle, WA Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 Posts: 15
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MadPick wrote: USAF17 wrote: If I understand the new approaching law correctly. If a P80 is built it needs to have a serial number. That’s not correct. Please quote the part of the law that you’re looking at. Again forgive me if Im asking the wrong question or misunderstand something along the lines of P80. If this bill didn't pass, was overturned or will not go into affect please let me know. HB 1739 http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/ ... H%2019.pdf"Untraceable firearms generally refer to firearms that do not have a serial number, resulting in an inability to trace the chain of distribution. " "Effective Date: The bill contains an emergency clause and takes effect July 1, 2019."
_________________ Go Hawks
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Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:08 am |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 51917
Real Name: Steve
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Right. That’s the definition.
But there’s no part that says you can’t possess an untraceable firearm, is there?
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:58 am |
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USAF17
Location: Seattle, WA Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 Posts: 15
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MadPick wrote: Right. That’s the definition.
But there’s no part that says you can’t possess an untraceable firearm, is there? There was a vague part about certain exceptions. So I go back to my original questions I ask to clarify. Simply put (yeah, laws are never written simply and to the point) do I need to get a serial number or not for an P80? Frustrating part is Ive ask a few places and no one knows for sure.
_________________ Go Hawks
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Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:33 pm |
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Guns4Liberty
Site Supporter
Location: Lynnwood/Bothell Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 Posts: 8552
Real Name: Curtis
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USAF17 wrote: MadPick wrote: Right. That’s the definition.
But there’s no part that says you can’t possess an untraceable firearm, is there? There was a vague part about certain exceptions. So I go back to my original questions I ask to clarify. Simply put (yeah, laws are never written simply and to the point) do I need to get a serial number or not for an P80? Frustrating part is Ive ask a few places and no one knows for sure. My take on it is no, you don't. I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. Your mileage may vary. Void where prohibited. See store for details.
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Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:36 pm |
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spaghetti monster
Site Supporter
Location: Marysville Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 Posts: 1319
Real Name: Drew
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USAF17 wrote: MadPick wrote: Right. That’s the definition.
But there’s no part that says you can’t possess an untraceable firearm, is there? There was a vague part about certain exceptions. So I go back to my original questions I ask to clarify. Simply put (yeah, laws are never written simply and to the point) do I need to get a serial number or not for an P80? Frustrating part is Ive ask a few places and no one knows for sure. Madpick did answer your question. He said it was incorrect then asked you to provide in the law that stated otherwise. You did not. So what part of the law makes you think you need a serial number? A definition of what an untracable firearm is doesn't mean you have to put a number on it. So what is the vauge part that makes you think otherwise?
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Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:17 pm |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 51917
Real Name: Steve
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^ Exactly. Thanks, Drew.
USAF17, it probably seems like I'm being kind of difficult just saying, "show me the law" or whatever. However, we (not just WaGuns, but the whole gun community) seem to have a recurring problem of people stating "facts" without the law to back them up, and those erroneous facts get taken at face value and then repeated elsewhere.
I've done some of this myself, so I'm guilty too -- but I'm learning.
So even though I answered your question (no, you don't need to serialize it), I would strongly suggest that you look at the actual law, copy/paste the relevant parts into the thread here, and then we can discuss and see if we all interpret it the same way.
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:45 pm |
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Nitro_Guns
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Lynnwood Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 Posts: 2496
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He is referring to this section: Not sure this bill has been passed into law as of now:
"Untraceable firearm" means any firearm manufactured after July 1, 2019, that is not an antique firearm and that cannot be traced by law enforcement by means of a serial number affixed to the firearm by a federally licensed manufacturer or importer.
Possession does not appear to be the issue....
_________________ aka Big_Daddy
Nitro Products FFL Dealer SOT Dealer
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Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:15 pm |
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Pablo
Site Supporter
Location: Everson, WA Joined: Sun Jan 6, 2013 Posts: 28149
Real Name: Ace Winky
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MadPick wrote: ^ Exactly. Thanks, Drew.
USAF17, it probably seems like I'm being kind of difficult just saying, "show me the law" or whatever. However, we (not just WaGuns, but the whole gun community) seem to have a recurring problem of people stating "facts" without the law to back them up, and those erroneous facts get taken at face value and then repeated elsewhere.
I've done some of this myself, so I'm guilty too -- but I'm learning.
So even though I answered your question (no, you don't need to serialize it), I would strongly suggest that you look at the actual law, copy/paste the relevant parts into the thread here, and then we can discuss and see if we all interpret it the same way. I agree with this approach. ESPECIALLY this Law. I thought there was some flaw , something I was missing. It did not hit me, until really slowed down and parsed the whole thing. Sub-statement by sub-statement. Ya just have to do it.
_________________ Why does the Penguin in Batman sound like a duck?
Because the eagle sounds like a hawk.
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Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:49 pm |
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AR15L
Site Supporter
Location: Nampa, Idaho Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 19386
Real Name: Rick
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Nitro_Guns wrote: He is referring to this section: Not sure this bill has been passed into law as of now:
"Untraceable firearm" means any firearm manufactured after July 1, 2019, that is not an antique firearm and that cannot be traced by law enforcement by means of a serial number affixed to the firearm by a federally licensed manufacturer or importer.
Possession does not appear to be the issue.... And once again I'll stick my nose under the tent. NO ONE IN HELL CAN TELL ME WHEN I MANUFACTURED IT!
_________________ ‘What’s the point of being a citizen if an illegal gets all the benefits’
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Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:50 pm |
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Nitro_Guns
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Lynnwood Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 Posts: 2496
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AR15L wrote: Nitro_Guns wrote: He is referring to this section: Not sure this bill has been passed into law as of now:
"Untraceable firearm" means any firearm manufactured after July 1, 2019, that is not an antique firearm and that cannot be traced by law enforcement by means of a serial number affixed to the firearm by a federally licensed manufacturer or importer.
Possession does not appear to be the issue.... And once again I'll stick my nose under the tent. NO ONE IN HELL CAN TELL ME WHEN I MANUFACTURED IT! NO ONE EVER SAID THEY COULD.....
_________________ aka Big_Daddy
Nitro Products FFL Dealer SOT Dealer
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Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:53 pm |
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Pablo
Site Supporter
Location: Everson, WA Joined: Sun Jan 6, 2013 Posts: 28149
Real Name: Ace Winky
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Quote: Manufacturing, Owning, Buying, Selling, Loaning, Furnishing, Transporting, or Possessing. With some exceptions, it is unlawful for a person to: manufacture, own, buy, sell, loan, furnish, transport, or have in possession or control, any undetectable firearm or any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in an undetectable firearm; or assemble or repair an undetectable firearm. A violation is a class C felony ranked at seriousness level III under the SRA. Undetectable firearms that are illegally held or illegally possessed are contraband subject to immediate seizure by law enforcement. It is unlawful for a person to manufacture an untraceable firearm with the intent to sell the untraceable firearm. A violation is a class C felony ranked at seriousness level III under the SRA.
_________________ Why does the Penguin in Batman sound like a duck?
Because the eagle sounds like a hawk.
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Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:57 pm |
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spaghetti monster
Site Supporter
Location: Marysville Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 Posts: 1319
Real Name: Drew
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Nitro_Guns wrote: He is referring to this section: Not sure this bill has been passed into law as of now:
"Untraceable firearm" means any firearm manufactured after July 1, 2019, that is not an antique firearm and that cannot be traced by law enforcement by means of a serial number affixed to the firearm by a federally licensed manufacturer or importer.
Possession does not appear to be the issue.... That is still just a definition of an untraceable firearm. Does it state that possession of one is illegal?
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Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:03 pm |
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