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 ATF Changes it's Mind About Length w/Braces 
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ATF RESCINDS PRIOR METHODS TO MEASURE A FIREARM’S OVERALL LENGTH WHEN EQUIPPED WITH A STABILIZING BRACE

https://blog.princelaw.com/2019/07/05/atf-rescinds-prior-methods-to-measure-a-firearms-overall-length-when-equipped-with-a-stabilizing-brace/

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Late yesterday, I received an email from an individual containing a letter from ATF which was a response to a correspondence requesting the correct method to “measure a firearm with a ‘stabilizing brace’ and folding adaptor.” It was explained that the correspondence was sent in the form of an email over a year ago and that the person had received a response via email shortly after it was sent. This letter was unsolicited and came over a year after the original request and response.

In the letter, ATF states that “[Firearms Technology Industry Services Branch] FTISB has previously determined that ‘stabilizing braces’ may be assembled on firearms as accessories…In contrast to stocks on rifles or shotguns…’stabilizing braces’ are merely accessories and not relevant to the classification of a ‘pistol’ under the statutory definition. That is, a folding stock on a rifle or shotgun is included in overall length measurements because the firearm must be ‘designed or redesigned….and intended to be fired from the shoulder‘ to be so classified. The stock is therefore an essential element in the statutory definition.”

Based on the letter, ATF is taking the position that because a stabilizing brace is not an integral part of the firearm, it is not relevant to the overall length measurement. Why does this matter? A number of individuals have been building AR pistols or other similar pistols that have utilized a stabilizing brace. Some have opted to add a vertical foregrip. However, based on this interpretation, those people may find that they have manufactured an “AOW”, which is subject to the restrictions of the National Firearms Act (“NFA”).

To fully understand, it is important to look at the definitions. The term “any other weapon” is defined to include...


So if you want to add a vertical grip to your braced pistol it either needs to be over 26", not including the brace, or pay the $200 for a stamp to make an AOW

Once it's made into an AOW it can be transferred with a $5 stamp

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Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:52 am
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Vertical grip (I agree)
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What about this?
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Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:10 am
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Knock yourself out. That's just for hanging it up right?

Go read the letter from the ATF. It only specifies how the firearm should be measured, not what accessories can be used

Is putting panels on the front of a pistol to add grip turning it into an AOW? IDK

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Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:13 am
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Thanks for posting this, Scott.

How fucking frustrating is this system, though . . . the ATF just makes up the rules as they see fit, and can change their minds at will, and there is no good communication system for any of it.

So now there are umpteen people out there with braced pistols and VFGs, and all could potentially get convicted of a "crime." That's fucked.

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Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:22 am
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At least it’s not something that’s incredibly difficult or expensive to pull off....still, wtf man.
This is insanity.


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Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:28 am
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Fuck the idiot that asked the atf.

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Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:00 am
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Oh good, more confusion regarding potential felonies.

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Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:06 am
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Anyone ever question staying in the gun game ? Lol. But seriously life would be so much easier than this damn hobby that keeps getting shit on from every angle lol. I won’t get rid of mine but I just might be done buying .....

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Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:15 am
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Daveygravey89 wrote:
Anyone ever question staying in the gun game ? Lol. But seriously life would be so much easier than this damn hobby that keeps getting shit on from every angle lol. I won’t get rid of mine but I just might be done buying .....

I've been thinking the same thing for a while now. Just too afraid of "coming out of the closet". :bigsmile:

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Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:17 am
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Daveygravey89 wrote:
Anyone ever question staying in the gun game ? Lol. But seriously life would be so much easier than this damn hobby that keeps getting shit on from every angle lol.


Yeah . . . I've had this thought many times. Not just easier, but WAY less stressful.

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Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:18 am
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It wouldn't be so bad if:

A) "Shall Not Infringe" wasn't such apparently complicated to understand.

and

B) The rules made some logical sense, like "Oh, this is clearly [insert "too dangerous" or "not safe" or otherwise - not that this should negate "A" above, but at least offers some logical clarity - like "fully auto" or "hand grenades" etc.]...

But the total arbitrary length definitions and accessories for pistols v rifles v AOW v SBR v SBS v diameter and rifling and pistols shoot rifle bullets and rifles shoot pistol bullets and so forth... Then sprinkle with a dash of 922 and it's a total mess.

The whole litany of arbitrary definitions needs to be thrown out. Replace with them all just firearms with non-legal subdefinitions of pistols, rifles, and shotguns in semi auto, bolt, and pump configurations based on general size and design. Keep it simple. Shoot any diameter, any attachments, and any configurations.

Laws must be clear and have non-arbitrary meanings. Otherwise the definitions as they stand now are just ripe for abuse and confusion.

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Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:31 am
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When a commissioned officer takes the oath, he swears
"To support and defend the Constitution of the United
States of America against all enemies foreign and
domestic."
We know about these foreign enemies of the US Constitution,
but who are the "domestics"? For my money the most
conspicuous domestic enemy whom I have sworn to confound is
the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.
It is not clear to me that the BATF does anything that
needs doing. Contrarily, it does a great deal that does
not need doing. I do not know how many people are currently
employed by this unpleasant agency, but I do feel it to be
my duty to support the US Constitution against domestic
enemies by advocating abolition of the BATF. I have been
told by people in Washington that when I make statements
like this, I am laying my head on the block. So be it.
Better men than I have done just that.

Jeff Cooper (1920-2006)
Jeff Cooper's Commentaries - Volume Five


Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:33 am
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No human gun is illegal!

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First few lines had me scared...this guy is nowhere near 26" folded...but no VFG.

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Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:38 am
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hkcavalier wrote:
No human gun is illegal!

Image

First few lines had me scared...this guy is nowhere near 26" folded...but no VFG.


Clearly that's concealable and would be twice doubly deadlier if it had a VFG

"Sir, is that a banana mag in your pants or are you just happy to see me"

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Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:00 am
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Freedom finds a way...
Here is a handstop so you dont go too far forward and a hand stop so you can pull it in to reduce felt recoil... whether you can grip both like a VFG.... thats for you to decide...


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NOW YOU DID IT...
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Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:11 am
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