Gun store Shooting Locations It is currently Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:06 am


Rules Brads Guns Rainier Arms McCallen Killer Innovations Fessleman Firearms
WGO Chat Room Rehv Arms Vantage Reloading
Gear Fortis WCA 2A Ind. Pintos WAC
Calendar


Forum rules


Nothing contained in this section shall be construed as legal advice. All members and guests are advised to perform due diligence in regards to laws and legal actions.



Reply to topic  [ 71 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
 ATF Changes it's Mind About Length w/Braces 
Author Message
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Marysville
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012
Posts: 1093
Real Name: Drew
RocketScott wrote:
spaghetti monster wrote:
MadPick wrote:
All right ... time out.

I just went back and read the original ATF letter. Follow the link in the OP, and read the letter.

We’ve been using the conclusion that “the brace doesn’t count,” but I think that’s incorrect. What they’re saying is that if you have a FOLDING brace (or presumably telescoping?), then you need to measure the gun with the brace in the folded position.

That’s a very, very different scenario for many of us.

I agree here. The first paragraph says it all. "...you ask about the correct way to measure a firearm equipped with a 'stabalizing brace' AND a folding adapter"


From the letter:

Quote:
Even if stationary however, only standard receiver extensions will be considered in overall length measurements. For example, accessories (extensions) that have superfluous material are not included in the overall length measurement because they are intended to circumvent the law and serve no purpose in the function of the firearm.


Ahh. I could only read the first page on my phone.


Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:52 am
Profile
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
User avatar
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer

Location: Tacoma, Washington
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014
Posts: 5759
RocketScott wrote:
dreadi wrote:
Clicking links and reading posts on a website doesn’t make it true or verified.


Do you think that the letter from the U.S. Department of Justice is fake?

Have you heard of Prince Law?


All I asked was if anyone took the time to investigate the validity of the claim. It’s the internet and not an official government website.

_________________
BLACK HAMMER ARMS
1911 Pistolsmithing
Firearm Refinishing
NEMO Arms Authorized Dealer
http://www.blackhammerarms.com
http://www.facebook.com/blackhammerarms


Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:16 am
Profile WWW
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Tacoma
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015
Posts: 4726
dreadi wrote:
RocketScott wrote:
dreadi wrote:
Clicking links and reading posts on a website doesn’t make it true or verified.


Do you think that the letter from the U.S. Department of Justice is fake?

Have you heard of Prince Law?


All I asked was if anyone took the time to investigate the validity of the claim. It’s the internet and not an official government website.


It's an official government letter

Prince Law has been around for a while and is a well regarded

_________________
You may be right, I may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for


Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:38 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Monte
Joined: Thu Sep 6, 2012
Posts: 6319
Real Name: Dan
It makes perfect sense why is the firearms community so up in arms (pun) about it?


Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:16 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Edmonds
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014
Posts: 6159
Real Name: Curtis
dan360 wrote:
It makes perfect sense why is the firearms community so up in arms (pun) about it?

Because it was previously NOT the case, and there are thousands of people who have firearms that are now suddenly NFA items without tax stamps. In other words, they were following previous ATF guidance to stay within the law, and that has now been reversed, putting them in violation of the law. It's not that hard to understand why people would be pissed.


Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:22 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Tacoma
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015
Posts: 4726

_________________
You may be right, I may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for


Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:45 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Monte
Joined: Thu Sep 6, 2012
Posts: 6319
Real Name: Dan
Guns4Liberty wrote:
dan360 wrote:
It makes perfect sense why is the firearms community so up in arms (pun) about it?

Because it was previously NOT the case, and there are thousands of people who have firearms that are now suddenly NFA items without tax stamps. In other words, they were following previous ATF guidance to stay within the law, and that has now been reversed, putting them in violation of the law. It's not that hard to understand why people would be pissed.


Did they state it or was it something not stated previously in regards to the brace vs stock?


Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:05 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Tacoma
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015
Posts: 4726
dan360 wrote:
Guns4Liberty wrote:
dan360 wrote:
It makes perfect sense why is the firearms community so up in arms (pun) about it?

Because it was previously NOT the case, and there are thousands of people who have firearms that are now suddenly NFA items without tax stamps. In other words, they were following previous ATF guidance to stay within the law, and that has now been reversed, putting them in violation of the law. It's not that hard to understand why people would be pissed.


Did they state it or was it something not stated previously in regards to the brace vs stock?


Much like bump stocks, designs were submitted to the ATF for approval and got the thumps up :thumbsup2:

Now they are saying that those designs are AOWs and illegal without paying $200 for a stamp :secretshake:

So how does that work if you want to actually be legit? You bought a factory gun that was approved under the old rule but now you must register it as an AOW. Do you submit a form 1 and now you're the maker and have to get it engraved again? Do you turn it back in to an SOT and they do a form 4? after the original maker reclassifies it?

_________________
You may be right, I may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for


Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:24 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Monte
Joined: Thu Sep 6, 2012
Posts: 6319
Real Name: Dan
RocketScott wrote:
dan360 wrote:
Guns4Liberty wrote:
dan360 wrote:
It makes perfect sense why is the firearms community so up in arms (pun) about it?

Because it was previously NOT the case, and there are thousands of people who have firearms that are now suddenly NFA items without tax stamps. In other words, they were following previous ATF guidance to stay within the law, and that has now been reversed, putting them in violation of the law. It's not that hard to understand why people would be pissed.


Did they state it or was it something not stated previously in regards to the brace vs stock?


Much like bump stocks, designs were submitted to the ATF for approval and got the thumps up :thumbsup2:

Now they are saying that those designs are AOWs and illegal without paying $200 for a stamp :secretshake:

So how does that work if you want to actually be legit? You bought a factory gun that was approved under the old rule but now you must register it as an AOW. Do you submit a form 1 and now you're the maker and have to get it engraved again? Do you turn it back in to an SOT and they do a form 4? after the original maker reclassifies it?


I can’t locate the approval letter for a braced thing in the fully locked unfolded position being A-OK. If someone knows where to find that approval letter a link would be awesome.


Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:00 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Tacoma
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015
Posts: 4726
dan360 wrote:
RocketScott wrote:
dan360 wrote:
Guns4Liberty wrote:
dan360 wrote:
It makes perfect sense why is the firearms community so up in arms (pun) about it?

Because it was previously NOT the case, and there are thousands of people who have firearms that are now suddenly NFA items without tax stamps. In other words, they were following previous ATF guidance to stay within the law, and that has now been reversed, putting them in violation of the law. It's not that hard to understand why people would be pissed.


Did they state it or was it something not stated previously in regards to the brace vs stock?


Much like bump stocks, designs were submitted to the ATF for approval and got the thumps up :thumbsup2:

Now they are saying that those designs are AOWs and illegal without paying $200 for a stamp :secretshake:

So how does that work if you want to actually be legit? You bought a factory gun that was approved under the old rule but now you must register it as an AOW. Do you submit a form 1 and now you're the maker and have to get it engraved again? Do you turn it back in to an SOT and they do a form 4? after the original maker reclassifies it?


I can’t locate the approval letter for a braced thing in the fully locked unfolded position being A-OK. If someone knows where to find that approval letter a link would be awesome.


Uhh, go read the letter again. Both pages

_________________
You may be right, I may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for


Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:59 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Parkland
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013
Posts: 1274
Real Name: Jeremy
If you want to know what is legal....read the laws. No offense to anyone, but depending on "translation of law" by a LEA is a fools gambit as this flip-flop shows.

Lets face it...ANY law which infringes on firearms ownership of any kind is constitutionally null and void. Either do want you want, or play their stupid games, but dont bitch about it when you're riding the razors edge and the board shifts.

If you skirt the law, eventually your practices are going to fall on the wrong side of the line. The house ALWAYS wins eventually. If you don't like it.... maybe put more time into considering that it's time to clean and re-organize the damn house.

_________________
.
Women scare me - all soft and playful on the outside, all berserker Ragnarok killing machines upstairs in the control room.
Rencorp .


Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:41 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 71 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum



Rent Me Pintos NRA SAF CCKRBA
Aldersons e-arms.com


Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software for PTF.
[ Time : 0.660s | 14 Queries | GZIP : On ]