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ATF possibly looking to redefine large frame pistols as AOWs
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scrid2000
Site Supporter
Location: Pierce County Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 Posts: 1989
Real Name: Shane
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This is a rumor, there's not much concrete about it available, but several sites have reported that the ATF is possibly considering redefining large frame pistols as AOWs and regulating them under the NFA. Source: https://comms.wiley.law/8/3583/october-2020/alert--atf-interpretive-change-restricts-handgun-imports-and-may-require-nfa-registration(2).aspI don't think it needs to be said how significant of a policy change this would be, nor how much of an upheaval it will be for many existing gun owners... but I'll say it anyway. This would not be good. Hopefully this is just a rumor, but given the ATF's recent animus towards Q (the honey badger fiasco) and the rumors a few months ago that they were looking into braces, this has all the hallmarks of a disaster.
_________________ Posts not legal advice.
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Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:40 pm |
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zombie66
Site Supporter
Location: Spanaway WA Joined: Wed Jul 6, 2011 Posts: 6312
Real Name: Hugo Stiglitz
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So a S&W 500 is now an AOW?
Seems legit.
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Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:48 pm |
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Normanator
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Location: Shelton, WA Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 Posts: 1136
Real Name: Norm
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What would they stop at when classifying a "large frame"? Most holster makers consider a P226 or a 1911 as a large frame auto... And whats to stop them from immediately moving to regulate compacts as they are much easier to conceal and more likely to be used illicitly then? This BS has got to be put in check! They are there to enforce, not legislate!
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Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:58 pm |
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scrid2000
Site Supporter
Location: Pierce County Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 Posts: 1989
Real Name: Shane
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Normanator wrote: What would they stop at when classifying a "large frame"? Most holster makers consider a P226 or a 1911 as a large frame auto... And whats to stop them from immediately moving to regulate compacts as they are much easier to conceal and more likely to be used illicitly then? This BS has got to be put in check! They are there to enforce, not legislate! The article provides a list of factors they seem to be considering: In some of the new letters, ATF has begun listing the following “objective design features” when making its evaluations: Incorporation of rifle sights; Utilization of "rifle caliber ammunition" (both 5.56mm and 7.62mm have been considered as such); Incorporation of “rifle-length barrel;” The “weapon’s heavy weight;” Ability to accept magazines that range in capacity from 20 rounds to 100 rounds, “which will contribute to the overall weight of the firearm”; and Overall length of the weapon which “creates a front-heavy imbalance when held in one hand.
_________________ Posts not legal advice.
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Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:01 pm |
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leadcounsel
Site Supporter
Location: Can't say Joined: Sun Sep 7, 2014 Posts: 8134
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Rather than doublding down on the complex artibrary fabricated definitions, it would be nice if they'd just go the opposite direction and disband all of the silliness.
I'd honestly propose no more legally consequential definitions and terms used only loosely to identify what the receiver is regardless as to whether it is a pistol that shoots rifle ammo or a rifle that shoots pistol ammo, etc. It's a firearm, with loose definitions as we generally use them.
_________________ I defend the 2A. US Army Combat Veteran and Paratrooper: OIF Veteran. BSM and MSM recipient. NRA Lifetime. Entertainment purposes only. I'm a lawyer, but have not offered you legal advice.
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Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:16 pm |
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spaghetti monster
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Location: Marysville Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 Posts: 1320
Real Name: Drew
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I am actually surprised that "braces" are still legal.
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Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:17 pm |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 52030
Real Name: Steve
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leadcounsel wrote: Rather than doublding down on the complex artibrary fabricated definitions, it would be nice if they'd just go the opposite direction and disband all of the silliness.
I'd honestly propose no more legally consequential definitions and terms used only loosely to identify what the receiver is regardless as to whether it is a pistol that shoots rifle ammo or a rifle that shoots pistol ammo, etc. It's a firearm, with loose definitions as we generally use them. BOOM The bottom line is that all of the "silliness" is completely irrelevant in terms of safety, and we waste an incredible amount of time and money playing these games. Just call it a gun, and move on.
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:51 pm |
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edogg
Site Supporter
Location: Central FL Joined: Sun Apr 7, 2013 Posts: 3207
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The whole “held by a single hand” thing is ridiculous. Everyone is taught and practices a 2 hand grip with any pistol. Strap the SBA3 to my forearm and I can shoot my 10” AR pistol one handed pretty much as easily as a shooting a Glock one handed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:57 pm |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 52030
Real Name: Steve
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edogg wrote: The whole “held by a single hand” thing is ridiculous. Everyone is taught and practices a 2 hand grip with any pistol. Maybe "held by a single hand in the movies" would be more accurate.
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:03 pm |
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Caveman Jim
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Location: In my Cave near the Cloquallum Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 Posts: 7788
Real Name: Jim Sr.
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When Trump is reelected he needs to go in and gut these federal agencies of these liberal progressive communist bastard’s!!! Do you wanna know how I really feel???
_________________"You are either with us...as Americans. Or, You are against us. There is no IN BETWEEN." ??? "We cannot negotiate with those who say, 'What's mine is mine, and what's yours is negotiable.'" JFK "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” -Ben Franklin MadPick wrote: I don't think you beat your children enough.
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Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:24 pm |
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ViniVidivici
Location: Puyallup Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 Posts: 3063
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"Upheaval for existing gun owners"? Not for this one, 'cause I don't give a flying fuck about their arbitrary bullshit. Ain't changin' nothin'.
They do need to be reigned in though, once and for all. Maybe during Preesident Trumps second term, some strides will be made.
Rumor or not, FUCK the BATFE. #willnotcomplywithshit
_________________ I'm a Morlock, in a land of Eloi...
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Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:37 pm |
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Pablo
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Location: Everson, WA Joined: Sun Jan 6, 2013 Posts: 28177
Real Name: Ace Winky
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Is Trump even aware of this shit? As far as I can tell they (ATF) seem to be chugging on with the liberal wet dream and Trump is wholly unaware.
Is NRA.GOA.SAF getting this to him????
EDIT: Does it even matter that very few crimes are committed with such firearms?
_________________ Why does the Penguin in Batman sound like a duck?
Because the eagle sounds like a hawk.
Last edited by Pablo on Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:34 pm |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 52030
Real Name: Steve
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Pablo wrote: Is Trump even aware of this shit? As far as I can tell they (ATF) seem to be chugging on with the liberal wet dream and Trump is wholly unaware.
Is NRA.GOA.SAF getting this to him????
EDIT: Does it even matter than very few crimes are committed with such firearms? Great questions.
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:36 pm |
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leadcounsel
Site Supporter
Location: Can't say Joined: Sun Sep 7, 2014 Posts: 8134
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MadPick wrote: Pablo wrote: Is Trump even aware of this shit? As far as I can tell they (ATF) seem to be chugging on with the liberal wet dream and Trump is wholly unaware.
Is NRA.GOA.SAF getting this to him????
EDIT: Does it even matter than very few crimes are committed with such firearms? Great questions. The head of the SAF is in pretty tight with Trump. I see him on FB going to many Trump events and meeting with him so I would assume he has a direct line...
_________________ I defend the 2A. US Army Combat Veteran and Paratrooper: OIF Veteran. BSM and MSM recipient. NRA Lifetime. Entertainment purposes only. I'm a lawyer, but have not offered you legal advice.
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Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:58 pm |
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Pablo
Site Supporter
Location: Everson, WA Joined: Sun Jan 6, 2013 Posts: 28177
Real Name: Ace Winky
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Please contact SAF. I will too.
_________________ Why does the Penguin in Batman sound like a duck?
Because the eagle sounds like a hawk.
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Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:02 pm |
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