A couple questions prior to FFL interview.
Wed May 11, 2016 7:05 am
Hello Folks,
As subject states, I have a couple questions I am wondering about? I have my ATF interview in a couple days for a kitchen table FFL and these are about the only things I haven't found much clear information on.
1) I have one safe that I currently keep my weapons in. Do I need to get another safe/cabinet or will a secured room suffice? I have researched the heck out of this and have heard people say everything from a subterranean triple bio-metric vault at a minimum to tossing a blanket over the pile and putting a teddy bear in place to guard it. I have read the ATF guidelines and I am pretty sure a secured room with security bars over the windows, a lock on the door, and a security sensor should be sufficient for the task.
2) As I understand, in WA state handguns are called in to the state and long guns go through NICS? Can anyone outline the actual method of accomplishing the state call in process cause I have not found it shown anywhere.
As subject states, I have a couple questions I am wondering about? I have my ATF interview in a couple days for a kitchen table FFL and these are about the only things I haven't found much clear information on.
1) I have one safe that I currently keep my weapons in. Do I need to get another safe/cabinet or will a secured room suffice? I have researched the heck out of this and have heard people say everything from a subterranean triple bio-metric vault at a minimum to tossing a blanket over the pile and putting a teddy bear in place to guard it. I have read the ATF guidelines and I am pretty sure a secured room with security bars over the windows, a lock on the door, and a security sensor should be sufficient for the task.
2) As I understand, in WA state handguns are called in to the state and long guns go through NICS? Can anyone outline the actual method of accomplishing the state call in process cause I have not found it shown anywhere.
Re: A couple questions prior to FFL interview.
Wed May 11, 2016 9:16 am
Re: A couple questions prior to FFL interview.
Wed May 11, 2016 9:44 am
Thanks dan10mmman. I think i found the website to use on there now. I had been scouring for a web link instead of just a website name/title. I really appreciate it.
Re: A couple questions prior to FFL interview.
Mon May 23, 2016 8:59 pm
Hopefully you have better luck than me getting your license after your interview.
Re: A couple questions prior to FFL interview.
Tue May 24, 2016 5:34 am
Fesselmenfirearms wrote:Hopefully you have better luck than me getting your license after your interview.
Welcome to WaGuns.
Do you want to share the rest of the story?
Re: A couple questions prior to FFL interview.
Tue May 24, 2016 6:23 am
Just been eight weeks since my interview and still nothing. The supervisor has had the file for a couple weeks and just waiting on his signature and licensing to send out my license. She said during the interview that it could take 3-5 weeks, but we're far past that. I submitted the application packet in February, I'll be calling the supervisor today up to try and get an update.
Re: A couple questions prior to FFL interview.
Tue May 24, 2016 7:22 am
OP: Don't worry too much about your initial interview. Remember to listen more than you talk. Security will be covered in your interview. I am home based, and my IOI only wanted to see what I had for security measures. She did not comment on the effectiveness of it. I don't believe there are any security requirements in writing, although you could ask and report back. I believe visible security measures can be very effective (even fake security cameras make thugs hesitate, as do "security dogs on patrol" signs, motion sensor lights, etc.), but you need some of the real thing as well.
Your goal: the neighbors never know that you are a gun dealer.
Before your first transfer (I know it seems a distant reality now), you really need to familiarize yourself with the NICS processes, 4473 instructions, and all the goofed up, bass-ackwards rules, myths, and beliefs when it comes to dealing with WA state rules. No one at WA state Firearms Dept will be helping you, so please do as much as your own research as possible. Nice folks, but they won't interpret the law for you.
Some items I discovered by accident along the way, in no particular order:
1) The WA state RCW's were written by 3rd graders who have no grasp of English. But this is where you will find the Firearms rules: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41&full=true
2) You can watch the "training" provided by WA State DOL, but it's out of date by nearly 4 years: http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/firearms/fatraining.html
2) The WA State Pistol Transfer Application is newly revised and still sucks pond water, but it is what it is: http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/firearms/faforms.html
3) You will need to establish how each jurisdiction wants to receive PTA's, be it fax or email.
4) Get yourself set up with an online fax program, you will need it to send PTA's following pistol transfers. You have 6 hours following the transfer to act.
5) After you complete a handgun transfer and send the PTA to the relevant LEO agency, you will also need to enter the information off the PTA here: https://secureaccess.wa.gov
6) Once you get your FFL number, sign up with NICS at http://www.nicsezcheckfbi.gov/
7) Write up a business plan with policies for transfers, NICS denials, storage, re-stocking, and credit cards.
8) Read and understand the federal statutes regarding firearms law in 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44 and 27 CFR ยง 478
9) Sign up on FFLsOnly and learn all you can from those on the forum.
10) Read the threads here in WaGuns and research the answers so you can sort the myths from the facts.
I hope this serves you after your initial inspection and helps you conduct business accurately and safely.
Your goal: the neighbors never know that you are a gun dealer.
Before your first transfer (I know it seems a distant reality now), you really need to familiarize yourself with the NICS processes, 4473 instructions, and all the goofed up, bass-ackwards rules, myths, and beliefs when it comes to dealing with WA state rules. No one at WA state Firearms Dept will be helping you, so please do as much as your own research as possible. Nice folks, but they won't interpret the law for you.
Some items I discovered by accident along the way, in no particular order:
1) The WA state RCW's were written by 3rd graders who have no grasp of English. But this is where you will find the Firearms rules: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41&full=true
2) You can watch the "training" provided by WA State DOL, but it's out of date by nearly 4 years: http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/firearms/fatraining.html
2) The WA State Pistol Transfer Application is newly revised and still sucks pond water, but it is what it is: http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/firearms/faforms.html
3) You will need to establish how each jurisdiction wants to receive PTA's, be it fax or email.
4) Get yourself set up with an online fax program, you will need it to send PTA's following pistol transfers. You have 6 hours following the transfer to act.
5) After you complete a handgun transfer and send the PTA to the relevant LEO agency, you will also need to enter the information off the PTA here: https://secureaccess.wa.gov
6) Once you get your FFL number, sign up with NICS at http://www.nicsezcheckfbi.gov/
7) Write up a business plan with policies for transfers, NICS denials, storage, re-stocking, and credit cards.
8) Read and understand the federal statutes regarding firearms law in 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44 and 27 CFR ยง 478
9) Sign up on FFLsOnly and learn all you can from those on the forum.
10) Read the threads here in WaGuns and research the answers so you can sort the myths from the facts.
I hope this serves you after your initial inspection and helps you conduct business accurately and safely.
Re: A couple questions prior to FFL interview.
Wed May 25, 2016 10:03 am
Thank you 3584ELK That is an impressive list of resources. I think that post should be a sticky somewhere. I am still working on translating the legalese of the fed and WA laws although the state laws seem to be the most problematic as far as clearly defining anything. The fed laws I can understand mostly and I think I have a decent grasp on them.
I had my interview just over a week ago and I learned that as long as I have a "secure storage" then I am okay. We kind of blazed through that part of it. So still no answer but my set up is my bench mark for the moment.
I have started making my list of rules but I am sure I will be evolving those once I start doing the actual work of it.
Thank you again.
I had my interview just over a week ago and I learned that as long as I have a "secure storage" then I am okay. We kind of blazed through that part of it. So still no answer but my set up is my bench mark for the moment.
I have started making my list of rules but I am sure I will be evolving those once I start doing the actual work of it.
Thank you again.
Re: A couple questions prior to FFL interview.
Wed May 25, 2016 10:26 am
You are welcome, and please don't forget that you MUST have a WA state Firearms Dealers License for Long Guns, Handguns, or Ammunition before you make any transfers or sales! You apply through the municipality where you reside...see RCW 9.41.110
Re: A couple questions prior to FFL interview.
Wed May 25, 2016 6:27 pm
Yes sir, my IOI spoke to that as well. As soon as I get my license in the mail I am going to head over to the Tacoma PD and see who I am supposed to talk with there. I asked when I called to find out where to send a copy of my form 7 but the lady who answered couldn't tell me one specific person so I figure I will just ask at the front desk(?) and see what happens.
Re: A couple questions prior to FFL interview.
Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:50 pm
A couple short answers.
Secure storage means pretty much just a locked door. They don't have any detailed requirements anywhere. Some suggestions, but nothing in actual regulation. I strongly recommend a decent fire resistant safe or three. Also a fire resistant filing cabinet is nice for your Acquisition/Disposition record AKA "bound book" (or backup disks/thumb drives/hard drives if you use an electronic book), and the 4473s you need to keep for the next few decades or until you go out of business.
If you use an electronic bound book it's nice because it's searchable if you need to find who bought a gun, say for an ATF trace or to let them know about a recall. Going line by line through a paper bound book is a pain. I loved when the store I used to work at went to AIMI Book, though it can get a bit pricey. It does do the state and federal forms, bound book, send the DOL their copy, and is just convenient. There are other companies with similar products out there that do the same or similar things.
Long guns, other, and pistols when the buyer has a CPL you just call or go online and do the NICS check. For handguns you then submit one copy to the DOL and another to the local police department or sheriff's department of the transferee. You'll need to look most of those up. Pierce County is easy as everything is county because everything is contracted through South Sound 911... even the CPLs that say xxx city police department... they are all signed by Jeanette at South Sound. You can ask for a list of FAX numbers from King county that also lists what cities contract through the sheriff. Even though I live inside the city limits of Seatac, and it's an actual incorporated city, my background checks are done by the county because we contract through the county for law enforcement services.
Some places you can fax, South Sound requires that you scan and email it, some will do either.
If the buyer/transferee doesn't have a CPL you will have to have them fill out the forms and send the PTA to the sheriff's or police department. The above applies, but that agency will let you know when the person gets a proceed or denial and the NTN.
After the gun is transferred you will have to submit a copy of the PTA (not the 4473, just the state form) to the DOL. You must use the DOL computer generated form (it's just a PDF file) because the state no longer allows the old paper forms to be used.
You'll need your state business license, state reseller permit, state firearms license, and if the city and county have their own licenses you'll need those too. Lots of licenses you'll need to make room to have visible.
Secure storage means pretty much just a locked door. They don't have any detailed requirements anywhere. Some suggestions, but nothing in actual regulation. I strongly recommend a decent fire resistant safe or three. Also a fire resistant filing cabinet is nice for your Acquisition/Disposition record AKA "bound book" (or backup disks/thumb drives/hard drives if you use an electronic book), and the 4473s you need to keep for the next few decades or until you go out of business.
If you use an electronic bound book it's nice because it's searchable if you need to find who bought a gun, say for an ATF trace or to let them know about a recall. Going line by line through a paper bound book is a pain. I loved when the store I used to work at went to AIMI Book, though it can get a bit pricey. It does do the state and federal forms, bound book, send the DOL their copy, and is just convenient. There are other companies with similar products out there that do the same or similar things.
Long guns, other, and pistols when the buyer has a CPL you just call or go online and do the NICS check. For handguns you then submit one copy to the DOL and another to the local police department or sheriff's department of the transferee. You'll need to look most of those up. Pierce County is easy as everything is county because everything is contracted through South Sound 911... even the CPLs that say xxx city police department... they are all signed by Jeanette at South Sound. You can ask for a list of FAX numbers from King county that also lists what cities contract through the sheriff. Even though I live inside the city limits of Seatac, and it's an actual incorporated city, my background checks are done by the county because we contract through the county for law enforcement services.
Some places you can fax, South Sound requires that you scan and email it, some will do either.
If the buyer/transferee doesn't have a CPL you will have to have them fill out the forms and send the PTA to the sheriff's or police department. The above applies, but that agency will let you know when the person gets a proceed or denial and the NTN.
After the gun is transferred you will have to submit a copy of the PTA (not the 4473, just the state form) to the DOL. You must use the DOL computer generated form (it's just a PDF file) because the state no longer allows the old paper forms to be used.
You'll need your state business license, state reseller permit, state firearms license, and if the city and county have their own licenses you'll need those too. Lots of licenses you'll need to make room to have visible.
Re: A couple questions prior to FFL interview.
Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:19 am
Great answer with better details. I wish I had been smart enough to ask before diving in!