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Does Rifle OC help or hurt the cause?
Moderators: Bill Starks, Dave Workman
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Does Rifle OC help or hurt the cause?
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Site Supporter   Location: Ahead of the pack Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 Posts: 3434 
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Unfolding debate: Do rifle-toting activists help or hurt 2A effort?
In the wake of Friday’s announcement that the Washington State Senate will no longer allow open carry of firearms in its gallery, a debate has erupted in the firearms community as to whether long gun open carry demonstrations advance or hurt the Second Amendment cause. http://www.examiner.com/article/unfoldi ... -2a-effort _________________ "The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer." - D.H. Lawrence |
| Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:50 pm |
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Site Supporter / FFL Dealer  Location: Lynnwood Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 Posts: 2499
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Sadly..............Your question was answered in the first sentence.
_________________ aka Big_Daddy Nitro Products FFL Dealer SOT Dealer Last edited by Nitro_Guns on Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total. |
| Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:49 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: 12 Acres in Eastern WA Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 Posts: 7251
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There's a difference between rifle OC (slung around your neck or over your shoulder) and holding it up above your head.
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| Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:36 pm |
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 Location: Idaho Falls, ID Joined: Sun Mar 3, 2013 Posts: 595
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If the "activists" at the rally had passively carried (ie: slung across their backs) there probably wouldn't have been any problems. Unfortunately they choose to finger- and hand-f**k their firearms constantly. Common sense for handgun open carrying means the firearm in question stays safely holstered unless needed to deal with a threat. Why should long gun open carry be any different?
Just carry the rifle, don't fondle it... _________________ Don't try to fix me, I'm not broken...just a little warped. In the end only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you. |
| Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:38 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: Graham WA Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 Posts: 1309 Real Name: Steve
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The larger question is: "What is the purpose of open carry of ANY firearm at a political event?"
The answer is obvious. It is a show of force. Period. Not a threat mind you, but a demonstration of potential. Therefore, the style and manner of carry is irrelevant. But in this case, the show of force wasn't really directed at the politicians. It was directed at Alan Gottleib. It was an offering of proof that he will never be able to cut out one segment of the gun rights community in pursuit of his version of political perfection. He will not be allowed by these folks to stick his fingers in his ears, and yell 'nah,nah,nah I can't hear you'. _________________ "Freedom begins at the muzzle, and ends at the butt-plate." |
| Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:27 pm |
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Site Supporter Location: Ahead of the pack Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 Posts: 3434
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Rivitman wrote: The larger question is: "What is the purpose of open carry of ANY firearm at a political event?" The answer is obvious. It is a show of force. Period. Not a threat mind you, but a demonstration of potential. Therefore, the style and manner of carry is irrelevant. But in this case, the show of force wasn't really directed at the politicians. It was directed at Alan Gottleib. It was an offering of proof that he will never be able to cut out one segment of the gun rights community in pursuit of his version of political perfection. He will not be allowed by these folks to stick his fingers in his ears, and yell 'nah,nah,nah I can't hear you'. So, you're acknowledging this was display was designed to intimidate someone, that right? _________________ "The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer." - D.H. Lawrence |
| Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:40 am |
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Site Supporter  Location: Marysville, WA Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 Posts: 11581 Real Name: Mike
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Dave Workman wrote: Rivitman wrote: The larger question is: "What is the purpose of open carry of ANY firearm at a political event?" The answer is obvious. It is a show of force. Period. Not a threat mind you, but a demonstration of potential. Therefore, the style and manner of carry is irrelevant. But in this case, the show of force wasn't really directed at the politicians. It was directed at Alan Gottleib. It was an offering of proof that he will never be able to cut out one segment of the gun rights community in pursuit of his version of political perfection. He will not be allowed by these folks to stick his fingers in his ears, and yell 'nah,nah,nah I can't hear you'. So, you're acknowledging this was display was designed to intimidate someone, that right? That was pretty obvious. Perhaps Alan would "relate" to this group better if he'd dump his bow ties. Maybe even start dressing more like the faux homeless that stand on streets with cardboard signs soliciting money. Isn't that how most of the demonstrators dressed? _________________ "I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother" - William Shakespeare |
| Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:44 am |
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Site Supporter Location: Graham WA Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 Posts: 1309 Real Name: Steve
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Dave Workman wrote: Rivitman wrote: The larger question is: "What is the purpose of open carry of ANY firearm at a political event?" The answer is obvious. It is a show of force. Period. Not a threat mind you, but a demonstration of potential. Therefore, the style and manner of carry is irrelevant. But in this case, the show of force wasn't really directed at the politicians. It was directed at Alan Gottleib. It was an offering of proof that he will never be able to cut out one segment of the gun rights community in pursuit of his version of political perfection. He will not be allowed by these folks to stick his fingers in his ears, and yell 'nah,nah,nah I can't hear you'. So, you're acknowledging this was display was designed to intimidate someone, that right? In the aggregate, no more, and no less than any previous rally where open carry was prevalent, including ones attended by you Dave. But if we are talking specifically, this was aimed squarely at Alan Gottleib, not the legislature. This was a demonstration to prove that he does not control the horizontal and vertical of gun rights. That there are a LOT of gun owners that have fundamental disagreement with his tactics, and who are sick and tired of his cavalier dismissals of their concerns. Alan Gottleib COULD have de-fused this a long time ago. Be he chose tsk tsk, and gave a backhanded wave. He just has to be the bigshot, and some of the little people cut him down a notch. So I have to respond to you Dave, with a question: How can anyone as smart as Alan, be so dumb? Those people in the Senate gallery didn't start this feud, ALAN DID. He did it with arrogance. Divisiveness. A demonstration of his apparent need to control the narrative. And his ever present willingness to trade marbles with anti gunners. Alan is pretty good with politics and raising money. He isn't worth a damn when it comes to dialog with ordinary gun owners. He's carving out his piece of the pie consisting of that population. he'd better pray it's a big enough slice. It wasn't with 591. _________________ "Freedom begins at the muzzle, and ends at the butt-plate." |
| Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:35 pm |
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 Location: WA State Joined: Fri Feb 8, 2013 Posts: 658
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Does it hurt our cause?
It shouldn't. Normal people should not be scared of inanimate objects. We drive inanimate objects. We eat with inanimate objects. Every facet of our lives interfaces with numerous inanimate objects. I spent 15 years in the US Army; I carried inanimate objects all the time. So did other people. I did not feel intimated or scared. As a sworn Officer, I carry plenty of inanimate objects. Other people do, too. I am not scared of them, nor am I intimated by them But some people ARE intimated and scared by inanimate objects. Some people also believe that their version of a utopian society must be imposed on everyone. They do everything they can to impose their visions on others. Do I have a real answer? I wish, I truly wish that I did. I will admit that I am divided. One part of me says that if I carry my guns quietly and show the epitome of good manners and courtesy, that others will finally note that the mere possession of a firearm does not turn me into a drooling monster. The other part says that it's my right to carry a weapon for whatever purpose I choose--whether it's for fun, for hunting, or for self defense--and that I should tell others to just shove it--because they have no right to do what they are doing. So--where's the middle ground? _________________ I hunt the things that go bump in the night.... |
| Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:07 pm |
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Site Supporter Location: Marysville, WA Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 Posts: 11581 Real Name: Mike
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Powderman wrote: Does it hurt our cause? It shouldn't. Normal people should not be scared of inanimate objects. We drive inanimate objects. We eat with inanimate objects. Every facet of our lives interfaces with numerous inanimate objects. I spent 15 years in the US Army; I carried inanimate objects all the time. So did other people. I did not feel intimated or scared. As a sworn Officer, I carry plenty of inanimate objects. Other people do, too. I am not scared of them, nor am I intimated by them But some people ARE intimated and scared by inanimate objects. Some people also believe that their version of a utopian society must be imposed on everyone. They do everything they can to impose their visions on others. Do I have a real answer? I wish, I truly wish that I did. I will admit that I am divided. One part of me says that if I carry my guns quietly and show the epitome of good manners and courtesy, that others will finally note that the mere possession of a firearm does not turn me into a drooling monster. The other part says that it's my right to carry a weapon for whatever purpose I choose--whether it's for fun, for hunting, or for self defense--and that I should tell others to just shove it--because they have no right to do what they are doing. So--where's the middle ground? Fact is that the majority in any group is often out shouted nby the extremists on both ends. There are ways to exercise one's rights witout being totally offensive. Two things happen when extremists try to dominate. First' those in the middle join the least offensive to their views. Second, the smarter ones at the extreme ends usually change allegiance due to the stupid actions of their brethren. The result? Unintended consequences. _________________ "I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother" - William Shakespeare |
| Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:33 pm |
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Site Moderator   Location: Marysville Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 Posts: 13503 Real Name: Mike
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IMO the answer to this question is not as simple as yes or no.
Does stupid hurt our cause? Certainly. Are there some instances when OC'ing a rifle is stupid? You bet. Is someone wearing a gas mask while brandishing a rifle in our state's capitol stupid. Well, I think that question answers itself. _________________ Licensed/Bonded/Insured Hardwood Floor Installer/Finisher http://www.hardwoodfloorsnw.com/ |
| Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:56 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: East of Japan, not by much. Joined: Fri Jun 3, 2011 Posts: 12990
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Nothing wrong with open carry, and responsible adult public display of firearms.
But - who paid the hillbilly retards and media shills who created that piece of propaganda that made the 99.9999% of regular gun owners look like cancer on a baby ? There - is a question worth an answer. Any real investigative reporters out there ? _________________ Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Give a man a fishing pole, and he will drink too much beer, get tangled in fish line, hook himself in the nose casting, fall overboard, and either drown, or, go home hungry and wet. Give a man a case of dynamite, and he will feed the whole town for a year! BE ON NOTICE: PRIVACY NOTICE: Warning - any person and/or institution and/or Agent and/or Agency of any governmental structure including but not limited to the United States Federal Government also using or monitoring/using this website or any of its associated websites, you do NOT have my permission to utilize any of my profile information nor any of the content contained herein including, but not limited to my photos, and/or the comments made about my photos or any other "picture" art posted on my profile. You are hereby notified that you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing, disseminating, or taking any other action against me with regard to this profile and the contents herein. The foregoing prohibitions also apply to your employee, agent, student or any personnel under your direction or control. The contents of this profile are PRIVATE and legally privileged and confidential information, and the violation of my personal privacy is punishable by law. UCC 1-103 1-308 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED WITHOUT PREJUDICE |
| Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:41 am |
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Site Moderator  Location: Duvall Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 Posts: 8661 Real Name: Jaime
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Thier actions went beyond just OCing Rifles. It was seen multiple times that they were manipulating their actions and pointing their rifles and shotguns at people while they had it in their hands. That is what hurts. Not the OCing. Their actions.
_________________ Consider donating to: WAGUNS Second Amendment Foundation Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms Join the NRA Firearms Policy Coalition |
| Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:51 am |
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Site Supporter  Location: West Phoenix, AZ Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 Posts: 3909
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Just like the Starbucks issue. .. what did we gain and what was lost?
Nothing gained, something lost so a few people could brag about being in a picture on the Web. .. you can do the math |
| Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:55 am |
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 Location: Witch Well, AZ Joined: Tue Feb 5, 2013 Posts: 580
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Personally I believe some of these gun strokers are leftists plants. With that being said, I still think Gotieib is a douche.
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| Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:51 pm |
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