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Dave Workman is an author, senior editor of Gun Week, communications director for the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, award-winning outdoor writer, former member of the NRA Board of Directors.
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Does Rifle OC help or hurt the cause?

Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:50 pm

Unfolding debate: Do rifle-toting activists help or hurt 2A effort?

In the wake of Friday’s announcement that the Washington State Senate will no longer allow open carry of firearms in its gallery, a debate has erupted in the firearms community as to whether long gun open carry demonstrations advance or hurt the Second Amendment cause.

http://www.examiner.com/article/unfoldi ... -2a-effort

Re: Does Rifle OC help or hurt the cause?

Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:49 pm

Sadly..............Your question was answered in the first sentence.
Last edited by Nitro_Guns on Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Does Rifle OC help or hurt the cause?

Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:36 pm

There's a difference between rifle OC (slung around your neck or over your shoulder) and holding it up above your head.

Re: Does Rifle OC help or hurt the cause?

Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:38 pm

If the "activists" at the rally had passively carried (ie: slung across their backs) there probably wouldn't have been any problems. Unfortunately they choose to finger- and hand-f**k their firearms constantly. Common sense for handgun open carrying means the firearm in question stays safely holstered unless needed to deal with a threat. Why should long gun open carry be any different?

Just carry the rifle, don't fondle it...

Re: Does Rifle OC help or hurt the cause?

Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:27 pm

The larger question is: "What is the purpose of open carry of ANY firearm at a political event?"

The answer is obvious. It is a show of force. Period. Not a threat mind you, but a demonstration of potential.

Therefore, the style and manner of carry is irrelevant.

But in this case, the show of force wasn't really directed at the politicians. It was directed at Alan Gottleib. It was an offering of proof that he will never be able to cut out one segment of the gun rights community in pursuit of his version of political perfection. He will not be allowed by these folks to stick his fingers in his ears, and yell 'nah,nah,nah I can't hear you'.

Re: Does Rifle OC help or hurt the cause?

Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:40 am

Rivitman wrote:The larger question is: "What is the purpose of open carry of ANY firearm at a political event?"

The answer is obvious. It is a show of force. Period. Not a threat mind you, but a demonstration of potential.

Therefore, the style and manner of carry is irrelevant.

But in this case, the show of force wasn't really directed at the politicians. It was directed at Alan Gottleib. It was an offering of proof that he will never be able to cut out one segment of the gun rights community in pursuit of his version of political perfection. He will not be allowed by these folks to stick his fingers in his ears, and yell 'nah,nah,nah I can't hear you'.



So, you're acknowledging this was display was designed to intimidate someone, that right?

Re: Does Rifle OC help or hurt the cause?

Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:44 am

Dave Workman wrote:
Rivitman wrote:The larger question is: "What is the purpose of open carry of ANY firearm at a political event?"

The answer is obvious. It is a show of force. Period. Not a threat mind you, but a demonstration of potential.

Therefore, the style and manner of carry is irrelevant.

But in this case, the show of force wasn't really directed at the politicians. It was directed at Alan Gottleib. It was an offering of proof that he will never be able to cut out one segment of the gun rights community in pursuit of his version of political perfection. He will not be allowed by these folks to stick his fingers in his ears, and yell 'nah,nah,nah I can't hear you'.



So, you're acknowledging this was display was designed to intimidate someone, that right?


That was pretty obvious.

Perhaps Alan would "relate" to this group better if he'd dump his bow ties. Maybe even start dressing more like the faux homeless that stand on streets with cardboard signs soliciting money. Isn't that how most of the demonstrators dressed?

Re: Does Rifle OC help or hurt the cause?

Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:35 pm

Dave Workman wrote:
Rivitman wrote:The larger question is: "What is the purpose of open carry of ANY firearm at a political event?"

The answer is obvious. It is a show of force. Period. Not a threat mind you, but a demonstration of potential.

Therefore, the style and manner of carry is irrelevant.

But in this case, the show of force wasn't really directed at the politicians. It was directed at Alan Gottleib. It was an offering of proof that he will never be able to cut out one segment of the gun rights community in pursuit of his version of political perfection. He will not be allowed by these folks to stick his fingers in his ears, and yell 'nah,nah,nah I can't hear you'.



So, you're acknowledging this was display was designed to intimidate someone, that right?


In the aggregate, no more, and no less than any previous rally where open carry was prevalent, including ones attended by you Dave.

But if we are talking specifically, this was aimed squarely at Alan Gottleib, not the legislature. This was a demonstration to prove that he does not control the horizontal and vertical of gun rights. That there are a LOT of gun owners that have fundamental disagreement with his tactics, and who are sick and tired of his cavalier dismissals of their concerns.

Alan Gottleib COULD have de-fused this a long time ago. Be he chose tsk tsk, and gave a backhanded wave. He just has to be the bigshot, and some of the little people cut him down a notch.

So I have to respond to you Dave, with a question: How can anyone as smart as Alan, be so dumb? Those people in the Senate gallery didn't start this feud, ALAN DID. He did it with arrogance. Divisiveness. A demonstration of his apparent need to control the narrative. And his ever present willingness to trade marbles with anti gunners.

Alan is pretty good with politics and raising money. He isn't worth a damn when it comes to dialog with ordinary gun owners. He's carving out his piece of the pie consisting of that population. he'd better pray it's a big enough slice. It wasn't with 591.

Re: Does Rifle OC help or hurt the cause?

Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:07 pm

Does it hurt our cause?

It shouldn't.

Normal people should not be scared of inanimate objects. We drive inanimate objects. We eat with inanimate objects. Every facet of our lives interfaces with numerous inanimate objects. I spent 15 years in the US Army; I carried inanimate objects all the time. So did other people. I did not feel intimated or scared.

As a sworn Officer, I carry plenty of inanimate objects. Other people do, too. I am not scared of them, nor am I intimated by them

But some people ARE intimated and scared by inanimate objects.

Some people also believe that their version of a utopian society must be imposed on everyone. They do everything they can to impose their visions on others.

Do I have a real answer? I wish, I truly wish that I did. I will admit that I am divided.

One part of me says that if I carry my guns quietly and show the epitome of good manners and courtesy, that others will finally note that the mere possession of a firearm does not turn me into a drooling monster.

The other part says that it's my right to carry a weapon for whatever purpose I choose--whether it's for fun, for hunting, or for self defense--and that I should tell others to just shove it--because they have no right to do what they are doing.

So--where's the middle ground?

Re: Does Rifle OC help or hurt the cause?

Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:33 pm

Powderman wrote:Does it hurt our cause?

It shouldn't.

Normal people should not be scared of inanimate objects. We drive inanimate objects. We eat with inanimate objects. Every facet of our lives interfaces with numerous inanimate objects. I spent 15 years in the US Army; I carried inanimate objects all the time. So did other people. I did not feel intimated or scared.

As a sworn Officer, I carry plenty of inanimate objects. Other people do, too. I am not scared of them, nor am I intimated by them

But some people ARE intimated and scared by inanimate objects.

Some people also believe that their version of a utopian society must be imposed on everyone. They do everything they can to impose their visions on others.

Do I have a real answer? I wish, I truly wish that I did. I will admit that I am divided.

One part of me says that if I carry my guns quietly and show the epitome of good manners and courtesy, that others will finally note that the mere possession of a firearm does not turn me into a drooling monster.

The other part says that it's my right to carry a weapon for whatever purpose I choose--whether it's for fun, for hunting, or for self defense--and that I should tell others to just shove it--because they have no right to do what they are doing.

So--where's the middle ground?

Fact is that the majority in any group is often out shouted nby the extremists on both ends. There are ways to exercise one's rights witout being totally offensive.

Two things happen when extremists try to dominate. First' those in the middle join the least offensive to their views. Second, the smarter ones at the extreme ends usually change allegiance due to the stupid actions of their brethren. The result? Unintended consequences.

Re: Does Rifle OC help or hurt the cause?

Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:56 pm

IMO the answer to this question is not as simple as yes or no.

Does stupid hurt our cause? Certainly. Are there some instances when OC'ing a rifle is stupid? You bet. Is someone wearing a gas mask while brandishing a rifle in our state's capitol stupid. Well, I think that question answers itself.

Re: Does Rifle OC help or hurt the cause?

Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:41 am

Nothing wrong with open carry, and responsible adult public display of firearms.

But - who paid the hillbilly retards and media shills who created that piece of propaganda that made the 99.9999% of regular gun owners look like cancer on a baby ?

There - is a question worth an answer.

Any real investigative reporters out there ?

Re: Does Rifle OC help or hurt the cause?

Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:51 am

Thier actions went beyond just OCing Rifles. It was seen multiple times that they were manipulating their actions and pointing their rifles and shotguns at people while they had it in their hands. That is what hurts. Not the OCing. Their actions.

Re: Does Rifle OC help or hurt the cause?

Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:55 am

Just like the Starbucks issue. .. what did we gain and what was lost?

Nothing gained, something lost so a few people could brag about being in a picture on the Web. ..


you can do the math

Re: Does Rifle OC help or hurt the cause?

Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:51 pm

Personally I believe some of these gun strokers are leftists plants. With that being said, I still think Gotieib is a douche.
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