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 WaGuns goes to SHOT - 2019 
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BlDtyLry wrote:
FIMS Manufacturing M-Lok carbon fiber grip line and stocks
Battlearms RACK Ambi CH
ELF Remington 700 Trigger
Fortis Adjustable Gas Block w/ Flywheel Technology
ETS Glock 45 and 10mm mags


I was going to do one more post tonight, about the BattleArms RACK ambi charging handle, but can't find my notes! I'll do a better write up, but have to say that the demo surprised the heck out of me.
I walked in thinking "It's a charging handle. So what?"
Well, it's an engineered charging handle, and the folks who designed it kicked some butt.
You can read up some here : http://www.battlearmsdevelopment.com/sh ... ategory=36

I have a few good videos of how the Ambi CH is working, but it'll take a Looong time for me to upload. Let me see if I can find a video that someone else has already put up on YT.
Well, can't find it on YT, but here's the Facial Book video :
https://www.facebook.com/BattleArms/vid ... 369701374/

Image

I bet the engineers would correct my description, but the best that I can come up with is to describe it as a cam action. Pulling on either side of the RACK Ambi CH cams out the pawl smoothly and evenly. It feels silky and... strong? Nothing hinky about it.

I found a short vid to upload... Right after I said something about a cam, the rep said "sort of"... So take it with a grain of salt.
But it felt good!

https://youtu.be/GeC51FJruLo

The videos were taken for me to look over to recall details... I didn't expect to post them. Sorry for the low quality. But hey, they're on par with my photoshop skills. Consistent!
And here he talks about how this smooth cam unlock action saves on wear and tear.

https://youtu.be/NPGIEs75JLI

I'll even say that seeing and feeling this charging handle opened my eyes to the possibility of differences in AR15 parts that justify some of the crazy builds that you AR experts do. It was an epiphany. This may end up on my first AR build.

_________________
"I like causing trouble, but only if I'm aware of it. To think I created a problem by accident was disappointing." Traut
"If you wanna be close to the big town you’re gonna have to eat shit sammiches a lot." Dan360
"The greatest challenge that I faced was peeling back the layers of my own bias"
"There are violent crazy murderous people in our society! We need to give up all of our means of self-protection IMMEDIATELY!"


Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:54 am
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PMB wrote:
Spoiler: show
I beg for forgiveness in my tardiness in posting up on SHOT. You've heard of the proverbial one-legged man in a butt kicking contest? For the last several months I have been the one-armed, two-arthritic-legged, insomniacal man in a getting-his-butt-kicked contest. I am only now catching up with the work that I left for later when I went for SHOT. Please to forgive your humble servant.

First up is :
Blaze.45 wrote:
Primary Arms 6.5CM Apollo
()
Desert Tech MDR


Primary Arms 6.5CM Apollo.
https://www.primaryarms.com/pa-3-18x50m ... cm-reticle

I spent about 35 minutes at the PA booth... Some of that time was waiting for an available rep, and the rest was spent with a rep name of Ian. He is an engineering support tech for PA, and the fellow who performs the endurance testing.
The bottom floor of the SHOT Show is not the most ideal environment for checking out the clarity of the glass of various scopes, but it did look good to my uncalibrated eye. I focused in on the furthest details which are usually pretty dark as I am looking up in the ceiling a few hundred feet away. I just hate looking through a rifle scope along where people are walking, even if said scope is attached to a fake rifle stock. It's just a terribly strong habit to try to break.
Objects like wiring and cables for hanging ventilation looked clear. Those small (1/8" maybe?) cables remained sharp despite the low light conditions in the ceiling.

Some specs of the Apollo scope :
SLx6 3-18x50 FFP
3x-18x - 50mm obj.
~ 4" of eye relief. Pretty nice I thought.
12 Step illumination, powered by a CR232.
Locking turrets. (Pull up, adjust, push down to lock.)

Primary Arms Optics come in 4 "tiers" in ascending price/quality.

Classic CLx ("unlike some other brands, we don't use the word "value" as a euphemism for "junk." [...] budget conscious [...] We take the time to 100% inspect every product at our facility here in Houston..." ) No country of origin is named for their CLx line.

Silver SLx ("heart of our lineup") No country of origin is named for their SLx line.

Gold GLx ("all-new Gold Series, engineered in Houston and constructed in the Philippines [...] exacting standards. latest technology and upgraded materials... intuitive solutions")

Platinum PLx ("flagship scopes manufactured and assembled in Japan with superior glass clarity and best materials [...] maximize the capability of the latest ACSS reticles")
The 6.5CM Apollo is in the PLx tier.
The 6.5CM Apollo is in the SLx tier. Thank you for the correction Isildur.

Which brings us to the ACSS reticles.
ACSS Reticle Images

I'm easily impressed, being a country bumpkin who has loved the heck out of iron sights, but I think I was even more impressed with some of the ACSS details. I have heard many people talk about how some reticles are "too busy"... I have even parroted comments like that myself sometimes, because simple just seems to feel right(er) than busy.
But the truth is that for me I only see the part of the scope view that I need to see at the moment that I am looking through it. I mean that I am not distracted by all the other bells and whistles going on around my target inside the scope.
So, if you like the old school crosshairs more than BDC and new fangled wind hold dots, you may not enjoy the ACSS reticles as much as I do.
ACSS core features : (From several of the other scopes, core features listed in the PA catalog.)
1. Chevron tip provides infinitely small aiming point blah blah blah (I don't even notice anything other than the point.)
2. Bullet drop compensation ladder provides holdovers for increasing target range. Nice small ladder too. I like.
3. Wind hold dots provide holdovers for crosswinds as target distance increases.
4. Vertical and horizontal automatic ranging determines distance to target.
5. Moving target leads provide holdovers compensating for target speed.
6. Breathalyzer that paints a circle of expected inaccuracies based on BAC for a given distance to target (DMOA, or Drunk MOA.)

Alright you caught me. I made the last one up.
But the reticle is not too busy for me. I thought that in a long range target shooting situation, every one of those "busy" options could be very cool to have.

ETA : An image of the reticle for Apollo-6.5CR
Attachment:
ACSS-Apollo-6.5CR.jpg



Alright, a couple of details. Ian showed me a pretty nifty (aftermarket) fold out magnification lever.
The parallax adjustment is inside the illumination ring.
Lifetime Warranty : I love PA's description of their lifetime warranty.

Quote:
Limited Lifetime Warranty Products

If your Primary Arms Optics product is covered by our Limited Lifetime Warranty, you don’t have to be the first owner or even prove you bought it from us. Manufacturer defects, materials and workmanship problems, and even normal wear and tear are covered. Open box, blemished, or refurbished items with a lifetime warranty enjoy the same warranty protection as their new counterparts. Where repair or replacement for these products is not possible, credit will be given towards a new Primary Arms product.


I asked if this scope had been tested for 50BMG. A: No. Ian does the ruggedness testing with .308 to 1000 rounds.
The reason that he doesn't test for 50BMG? Costs too damned much. hahah
Also, he pointed out that PA is located in the city, and it's a bit of a pain to drive to a range that he can properly run out 1000 rounds of 50BMG.

This write up is done by a relative new guy to scopes. Have used them all my life, but generally leaned to iron sights and simple cheap scopes <$300. Any errors or omissions, please let me know and I'll try to get straightened up myself and fix the write up so as not to mislead others through my ignorance.
Image

I sent a note to Ian at Primary Arms and he replied with this :

Quote:
The model you looked at was the SLX6 series 3-18 with Apollo reticle which is made in China. We are also going to be offering that same reticle in the PLX5 6-30 which is made in Japan, that model should be available later this year. So that might have caused some confusion during our discussion.
(...)
CLX and SLX are made in China

GLX are made in Philippines

PLX are made in Japan

Every single model undergoes a 100% QA inspection in house at our facility in Houston, Tx. All the reticle design is done by Dimitri who works for Primary Arms out of Henderson, NV. For the newer models like the GLX series and ECS mounts the engineering was also done in Houston. We are going to start updating our scopes to include a number of the design features similar to that on the GLX series.


I am impressed that PA does a QA inspection in Houston for every item instead of relying on QA/QC in China. That's big to me. I hate receiving a product that is obviously faulty out of the box, and it happens way too often. Having it checked here in the USA should save a bunch of wasted time and effort.

I didn't see every one of the following reticles, but should have added that the SLx6 3-18x50 FFP scope is available in 9 different reticles.
Attachment:
acss01.jpg

Attachment:
acss02.jpg


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
"I like causing trouble, but only if I'm aware of it. To think I created a problem by accident was disappointing." Traut
"If you wanna be close to the big town you’re gonna have to eat shit sammiches a lot." Dan360
"The greatest challenge that I faced was peeling back the layers of my own bias"
"There are violent crazy murderous people in our society! We need to give up all of our means of self-protection IMMEDIATELY!"


Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:09 am
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BlDtyLry wrote:
FIMS Manufacturing M-Lok carbon fiber grip line and stocks
Battlearms RACK Ambi CH
ELF Remington 700 Trigger
Fortis Adjustable Gas Block w/ Flywheel Technology
ETS Glock 45 and 10mm mags

Checked out the Elftmann Tactical booth for the ELF 700 trigger.
Image
The knowledgeable fellow wearing the red beard talked with me and pulled the cut-away version of the trigger out of his pocket for a photo-op.
Image

Image
Image

Image

The trigger is phenomenal. I can throw in words like crisp break and zero take-up, but to a guy who has been living with stock triggers his whole life - Just WOW. Three roller bearings, "Externally Adjustable From less than 2oz to over 5 lbs" between shots...
They don't give these beauties away (MSRP is $296) but even I can appreciate such a leap in performance.
I asked about the overtravel and was informed that it was intentionally built in per feedback from shooters.

In past SHOT trips I concentrated on complete rifles and handguns... That's changing for next year. My blinders have been pulled far enough to one side for me to recognize that there are some treasures in that blinding white light of learning.

Image

_________________
"I like causing trouble, but only if I'm aware of it. To think I created a problem by accident was disappointing." Traut
"If you wanna be close to the big town you’re gonna have to eat shit sammiches a lot." Dan360
"The greatest challenge that I faced was peeling back the layers of my own bias"
"There are violent crazy murderous people in our society! We need to give up all of our means of self-protection IMMEDIATELY!"


Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:37 pm
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BlDtyLry wrote:
FIMS Manufacturing M-Lok carbon fiber grip line and stocks
Battlearms RACK Ambi CH
ELF Remington 700 Trigger
Fortis Adjustable Gas Block w/ Flywheel Technology
ETS Glock 45 and 10mm mags


I found something that I will be adding to next year's Christmas Wish List.
So first to the skinny. The fellow who talked with me at the ETS booth informed that the Glock 45 and 10mm mags are 3-4 months out, and that he was confident that it would not be longer than that.
Image

They're not listed here yet:
https://www.etsgroup.us/ETS-Group-Glock ... s/1823.htm

Now to the ETS speedloaders.

Image

Image

Image

$30 and no more sore fingers. I can see buying up enough mags and loading up with these in my future.
My videos were short and sweet, but here's a more in depth one from YT.

https://youtu.be/Sd6a8T3VTbE

_________________
"I like causing trouble, but only if I'm aware of it. To think I created a problem by accident was disappointing." Traut
"If you wanna be close to the big town you’re gonna have to eat shit sammiches a lot." Dan360
"The greatest challenge that I faced was peeling back the layers of my own bias"
"There are violent crazy murderous people in our society! We need to give up all of our means of self-protection IMMEDIATELY!"


Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:53 pm
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Oooh . . . ETS 10mm sticks . . . I'm ready!!

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Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:47 pm
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Mike your SHOT show reporting the a top notch! I need to set the bar higher next year!

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Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:52 pm
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Sinus211 wrote:
Mike your SHOT show reporting the a top notch! I need to set the bar higher next year!

You're kind Mike, but I keep saying "Next year I will be ready." Hasn't happened yet.

We'll get it right next year. :bigsmile:


Here's a well armed ride :

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

_________________
"I like causing trouble, but only if I'm aware of it. To think I created a problem by accident was disappointing." Traut
"If you wanna be close to the big town you’re gonna have to eat shit sammiches a lot." Dan360
"The greatest challenge that I faced was peeling back the layers of my own bias"
"There are violent crazy murderous people in our society! We need to give up all of our means of self-protection IMMEDIATELY!"


Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:49 pm
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Real Name: Ian
PMB wrote:
Isildur wrote:
Quote:
Tuesday, January 22, 2019
Primary Arms Announces New Optic Tier System

·Our product growth demands a new categorization system

·Platinum Series (PLx) – Flagship optics manufactured in Japan

·NEW Gold Series (GLx) – Engineered in Houston, manufactured in Philippines

·Silver Series (SLx) – Our most popular optics, manufactured in China

·Classic Series (CLx) – High quality entry level, manufactured in China

That's odd... PA rep told me that the Apollo 6.5CR was made in Japan. I wrote it in my little notebook! :bigsmile:


The Apollo is going to also be available in the PLX series 6-30 later this year. So while that particular 3-18 is made in china there will be another version made in japan with the identical reticle.


Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:48 am
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Welcome to WaGuns Ian!
welcomewgo
:wagwoot:

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Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:02 am
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Real Name: Ian
PMB wrote:
Primary Arms 6.5CM Apollo.
https://www.primaryarms.com/pa-3-18x50m ... cm-reticle

I spent about 35 minutes at the PA booth... Some of that time was waiting for an available rep, and the rest was spent with a rep name of Ian. He is an engineering support tech for PA, and the fellow who performs the endurance testing.
The bottom floor of the SHOT Show is not the most ideal environment for checking out the clarity of the glass of various scopes, but it did look good to my uncalibrated eye. I focused in on the furthest details which are usually pretty dark as I am looking up in the ceiling a few hundred feet away. I just hate looking through a rifle scope along where people are walking, even if said scope is attached to a fake rifle stock. It's just a terribly strong habit to try to break.
Objects like wiring and cables for hanging ventilation looked clear. Those small (1/8" maybe?) cables remained sharp despite the low light conditions in the ceiling.

The rest of the stuff PMB Wrote, here:
Spoiler: show
Some specs of the Apollo scope :
SLx6 3-18x50 FFP
3x-18x - 50mm obj.
~ 4" of eye relief. Pretty nice I thought.
12 Step illumination, powered by a CR232.
Locking turrets. (Pull up, adjust, push down to lock.)

Primary Arms Optics come in 4 "tiers" in ascending price/quality.

Classic CLx ("unlike some other brands, we don't use the word "value" as a euphemism for "junk." [...] budget conscious [...] We take the time to 100% inspect every product at our facility here in Houston..." ) No country of origin is named for their CLx line.

Silver SLx ("heart of our lineup") No country of origin is named for their SLx line.

Gold GLx ("all-new Gold Series, engineered in Houston and constructed in the Philippines [...] exacting standards. latest technology and upgraded materials... intuitive solutions")

Platinum PLx ("flagship scopes manufactured and assembled in Japan with superior glass clarity and best materials [...] maximize the capability of the latest ACSS reticles")
The 6.5CM Apollo is in the PLx tier.
The 6.5CM Apollo is in the SLx tier. Thank you for the correction Isildur.

Which brings us to the ACSS reticles.
ACSS Reticle Images

I'm easily impressed, being a country bumpkin who has loved the heck out of iron sights, but I think I was even more impressed with some of the ACSS details. I have heard many people talk about how some reticles are "too busy"... I have even parroted comments like that myself sometimes, because simple just seems to feel right(er) than busy.
But the truth is that for me I only see the part of the scope view that I need to see at the moment that I am looking through it. I mean that I am not distracted by all the other bells and whistles going on around my target inside the scope.
So, if you like the old school crosshairs more than BDC and new fangled wind hold dots, you may not enjoy the ACSS reticles as much as I do.
ACSS core features : (From several of the other scopes, core features listed in the PA catalog.)
1. Chevron tip provides infinitely small aiming point blah blah blah (I don't even notice anything other than the point.)
2. Bullet drop compensation ladder provides holdovers for increasing target range. Nice small ladder too. I like.
3. Wind hold dots provide holdovers for crosswinds as target distance increases.
4. Vertical and horizontal automatic ranging determines distance to target.
5. Moving target leads provide holdovers compensating for target speed.
6. Breathalyzer that paints a circle of expected inaccuracies based on BAC for a given distance to target (DMOA, or Drunk MOA.)

Alright you caught me. I made the last one up.
But the reticle is not too busy for me. I thought that in a long range target shooting situation, every one of those "busy" options could be very cool to have.

ETA : An image of the reticle for Apollo-6.5CR
Attachment:
ACSS-Apollo-6.5CR.jpg



Alright, a couple of details. Ian showed me a pretty nifty (aftermarket) fold out magnification lever.
The parallax adjustment is inside the illumination ring.
Lifetime Warranty : I love PA's description of their lifetime warranty.

Quote:
Limited Lifetime Warranty Products

If your Primary Arms Optics product is covered by our Limited Lifetime Warranty, you don’t have to be the first owner or even prove you bought it from us. Manufacturer defects, materials and workmanship problems, and even normal wear and tear are covered. Open box, blemished, or refurbished items with a lifetime warranty enjoy the same warranty protection as their new counterparts. Where repair or replacement for these products is not possible, credit will be given towards a new Primary Arms product.


I asked if this scope had been tested for 50BMG. A: No. Ian does the ruggedness testing with .308 to 1000 rounds.
The reason that he doesn't test for 50BMG? Costs too damned much. hahah
Also, he pointed out that PA is located in the city, and it's a bit of a pain to drive to a range that he can properly run out 1000 rounds of 50BMG.

This write up is done by a relative new guy to scopes. Have used them all my life, but generally leaned to iron sights and simple cheap scopes <$300. Any errors or omissions, please let me know and I'll try to get straightened up myself and fix the write up so as not to mislead others through my ignorance.
Image


Thank you for stopping by the booth and I would agree the basement isn't the best location for optics viewing. But, we did the best with what we had to work with. If you have the ability to come out to the range day next year it will give you a better idea of the real world application of the scopes.

Several others have already pointed out a few things on the previous replies so I won't reiterate too much.

The model you looked at was the SLX6 series 3-18 with Apollo reticle which is made in China. We are also going to be offering that same reticle in the PLX5 6-30 which is made in Japan, that model should be available later this year. So that might have caused some confusion during our discussion.

CLX and SLX are made in China
GLX are made in Philippines
PLX are made in Japan

Every single model undergoes a 100% QA inspection in house at our facility in Houston, Tx. All the reticle design is done by Dimitri who works for Primary Arms out of Henderson, NV. For the newer models like the GLX series and ECS mounts the engineering was done in Houston. We are going to start updating our scopes to include a number of the design features similar to that on the GLX and 3-18 series of scopes.

While I have only personally tested a number of these optics on .308 Dimitri and several of his friends have been testing these optics on a number of different calibers and platforms to see how they perform. So far we have not see any issues with them. For the testing I do in house I use a HK MR762 and a POF revolution .308. We wanted to find something that was a gas piston and known to be a little rough on optics due to the weird recoil forces induced by the piston system. As we had talked about I am a bit limited on what I can test with caliber-wise due to budget and location. We also have the factory recoil test the optics for 1000Gs 1000 times.


Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:12 am
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PMB wrote:
10mm mags are 3-4 months out, and that he was confident that it would not be longer than that.
Image

They're not listed here yet:
https://www.etsgroup.us/ETS-Group-Glock ... /1823.html].



Holy shit!!!!! I might actually forgive you clowns for not giving a proper Lone Wolf report. Frankly you should have dressed LW down. Unless they had an Asian booth babe.

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Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:27 am
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Ian, thanks for sharing those details and for joining us! thumbsup

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Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:30 am
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MadPick wrote:
Ian, thanks for sharing those details and for joining us! thumbsup


No kidding.

Welcome!!

I am like a PA top ten customer!! A couple weeks ago I REALLY thanked one of your folks (Lyndsey) for the free PA knit cap (wearing now) and praised just how awesome you guys are. Almost always have stock and your shipping is the most rapid of any industry I have dealt with. Lightning fast! Keep it up. :thumbsup2: :bow: :wagwoot:

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Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:42 am
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Ian-BamBam wrote:
Thank you for stopping by the booth and I would agree the basement isn't the best location for optics viewing. But, we did the best with what we had to work with. If you have the ability to come out to the range day next year it will give you a better idea of the real world application of the scopes.

Welcome to WaGuns, and thanks very much for giving us the inside scoop. :wagwoot:
Range Day 2020 - has a nice ring to it for optics.


Ian-BamBam wrote:
While I have only personally tested a number of these optics on .308 Dimitri and several of his friends have been testing these optics on a number of different calibers and platforms to see how they perform. So far we have not see any issues with them. For the testing I do in house I use a HK MR762 and a POF revolution .308. We wanted to find something that was a gas piston and known to be a little rough on optics due to the weird recoil forces induced by the piston system. As we had talked about I am a bit limited on what I can test with caliber-wise due to budget and location. We also have the factory recoil test the optics for 1000Gs 1000 times.

I remember you talking about the 1000Gs but didn't include that in my write up because I didn't feel like I knew enough about that test... I guess the simple numbers are good enough. :thumbsup2:
I was impressed with what I saw and plan on owning a PA optics soon. "As soon as the house gets done." :bigsmile: I've been saying that for awhile, but it better be this year.

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"I like causing trouble, but only if I'm aware of it. To think I created a problem by accident was disappointing." Traut
"If you wanna be close to the big town you’re gonna have to eat shit sammiches a lot." Dan360
"The greatest challenge that I faced was peeling back the layers of my own bias"
"There are violent crazy murderous people in our society! We need to give up all of our means of self-protection IMMEDIATELY!"


Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:48 am
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Thanks PMB for going through my list. Really appreciate it. Friend of mine goes to Shot Show but he's not a gun guy (mostly knives) so I couldn't get a feel on what was good or not.

I'm running a TriggerTech Diamond and it sounds like my next Bolt build I will be going with the Elftmann 700 because I want the rifle to be able run on the bench as well as for hunting. 3oz-5lbs is quite the adjustment range. I have three Elftmann AR triggers so I had a feeling this would be a good product as well.

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Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:11 am
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