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It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:59 am
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Feeding a pair of old 30-06's
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Schoolboy
Location: Arlington wa Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 Posts: 1114
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I was tempted to make two threads but decided to keep things simple with one thread. The two 30-06's in question happen to be my 1941 Remington 720 bolt action that is currently equiped with a weaver 3-9 power scope. The other is my 1942 Springfeild M1 Garand, so lets get at it!
Up first was the M1 loads. These were done with HXP military cases and this is the 3rd loading. Sizing was done with the rcbs match master full length die, small expander ball, and a .332 dia neck bushing. Cases were trimmed back to 2.484", primed with winchester large rifle primes. Now while IMR 4895 is not listed in the garand safe section of the hornady book I was able to extrapolate my load looking at various sources including the sierra data. So the 1st set of 24rnds were given the following charges: 43.0, 44.8, and 46.6gr's. Using the matchmaster seater hornady 150gr FMJ-BT projectiles were seated to C.O.L of 3.185 and crimped with a lee factory crimp die lightly. For the 2nd set of 24rnds I went with: 39.6, 42.1, and 44.6gr's of IMR 4895. These were topped with some sierra 168gr match king projectiles that are pulled bullets I picked up from Col_Temp last year. Again these were seated with the matchmaster die at a C.O.L of 3.285" and crimped.
Moving on to the bolt action loads, 32 pieces of Winchester commercial brass was selected, sized, trimmed, and primed same as the M1 loads. The 1st set of 15 were charged with: 46.3, 48.1, and 49.9gr's of IMR 4895. These were topped with the hornady 150gr FMJBT projectiles and crimped lightly at a C.O.L. of 3.185". The 2nd set of 17 were charged in 5/5/7rnd order with: 45.3, 47.2, and 48.7gr's of IMR 4895. The odd number comes from me destroying 3 cases while having issues with my trimmer. Anyways these were topped with the 168gr SMK and crimped lightly at a C.O.L of 3.320".
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_________________ You can only run for so long, and if you do you'll still be surrounded and out numbered so hold the line.
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Fri Feb 11, 2022 9:00 pm |
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redstar
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Location: Olympia Joined: Sun Feb 3, 2013 Posts: 224
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Wow was just doing reloading for my garands...here's what I run. 1. Resized KAC brass...military. 2. 45 gr IMR 4895. 3. Speer 150gr hotcores.
Runs great in both my H&R and SA.
hope that helps. Be interested to see your results.
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Fri Feb 11, 2022 9:12 pm |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 51919
Real Name: Steve
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Oh man, Schoolboy, you're a lot more motivated than I am!
I make Garand loads . . . and then shoot them out of all my .30-06 rifles, Garand or otherwise!
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Fri Feb 11, 2022 9:25 pm |
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Schoolboy
Location: Arlington wa Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 Posts: 1114
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redstar wrote: Wow was just doing reloading for my garands...here's what I run. 1. Resized KAC brass...military. 2. 45 gr IMR 4895. 3. Speer 150gr hotcores.
Runs great in both my H&R and SA.
hope that helps. Be interested to see your results. That looks like a pretty solid load from my reading, and my results are below. MadPick wrote: Oh man, Schoolboy, you're a lot more motivated than I am!
I make Garand loads . . . and then shoot them out of all my .30-06 rifles, Garand or otherwise! I thought about doing that but since I am planning a big range of loads for the bolt action that would hurt an M1 I decided to separate church and state by running commercial brass in the bolt and mil spec in the M1. Now that might go out the window as my supply drys up and I start buying starline cases but we will see.... I took advantage of the Marysville Rifle Club's public day by shooting for 5hrs straight. I warmed up with my .22lr, then got serious and moved to the 30-06 bolt gun, my 1886 in 45-70 was next, and the M1 was last. In retrospect I probably should have gone .22lr, M1, 45-70, then the bolt action because I was tired by the time I got to the M1 and it got hard to focus on the targets. Attachment: 20220210_135714_HDR.jpg The M1 was fired at the 100yrd line targets Attachment: 20220211_212833_HDR-1.jpg In the photo above are the "combined" group results for the m1's 150gr loads of 43.0gr and 44.8gr's. I only managed to get 5 shots on the paper with the 43.0gr loads. Of the 5 shots 3 of them were outside the circle at the bottom of the paper. I don't remember where the spotter said the other 2 landed. But this led me to try adjusting the sights (to sperate the groups) where I found the elevation knob screw was lose. So I used a thumb nail to tighten it up as I added about 3 clicks. Of the 44.8gr loads shot next I got 6 shots on the paper, with one off the paper and one round the gun tried to eat when chambering. It was stuck projectile down in the area foward of the magazine with the butt of the case up in the air like a reverse stove pipe pistol round. It was just damn odd and 1st foul up of its kind so far. (Pics are below) Needless to say this didn't sit well with me but the deed was done. Attachment: 20220211_213404_HDR-1.jpg Attachment: 20220211_213417_HDR-1.jpg After a minute breather I loaded the 46.6gr rounds and took aim at the red diamond target and came away with the 5.5" group below. Attachment: 20220211_212838_HDR-1.jpg Fatigue was really setting in now but I had the range to myself at this point, so the RSO helped me hang two fresh targets for the 168gr smk loads. Starting with the bottom target in the photo below, the lower group repersents the starting 39.6gr load. The RSO who was spotting for me said I got 7 shots I got on target. The 8th was just off the paper. Having learned my lesson earlier I cranked about 5 clicks of elevation into the sight to get some seperation between the groups. The upper cluster of 7shots on the lower target represents the 42.1gr group. The 8th shot can be seen at the bottom right corner of the upper target paper. The 42.1gr group had the diagonal stringing where you can see two separate clusters of 3 shots. So I'm not sure what to think of that. For the last group (44.6gr) I moved to the top target and managed to keep them all on paper but thats not saying much.... Attachment: 20220211_213014_HDR.jpg With my ammo and shoulder exhausted the RSO and I went down to retrieve my targets. I was grumbling a bit about doing a crap job. The old guy chuckled picked up the worst target and held it up to his chest. He said man you've taken a beating today and you managed to keep all your shots from an 80yr old battle rifle inside a target that back in the day would still have resulted in a dead Nazi, you did good.... I couldn't argue with that logic, but I would still like to shrink these groups down to 3" or so. Bolt gun results tomorrow.....
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_________________ You can only run for so long, and if you do you'll still be surrounded and out numbered so hold the line.
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Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:14 pm |
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usrifle
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Location: RENTON Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 Posts: 20754
Real Name: John
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Nice write up and pics, well done!
_________________ Mr. Q wrote: so basically, if you have to smoke some asshole, make sure they become fertilizer and then Bounce? got it.
Guntrader wrote: Huh, maybe I was an asshole.
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Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:29 pm |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 51919
Real Name: Steve
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usrifle wrote: Nice write up and pics, well done! I agree, and I agree with the RSO too! That sounds like a long but awesome day!
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Sat Feb 12, 2022 9:05 am |
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Schoolboy
Location: Arlington wa Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 Posts: 1114
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MadPick wrote: usrifle wrote: Nice write up and pics, well done! I agree, and I agree with the RSO too! That sounds like a long but awesome day! Thanks guys! I'm gonna reading up on little things I can do to make the M1 more accurate starting with recrowning the barrel as its pretty bad. If I find the right cutter I don't see why I can't use it on the the M1, the Bolt action, mosin, and the 308 bolt as they all kinda the same rounded shape..... Well here's another possible issue, taking the M1 out of the safe to take the muzzle photo I realized the gas cylinder was loose thanks to the screw backing out. Attachment: 46469456992_6e45a0697c_o.jpg Attachment: 20220212_101931_HDR-1.jpg I'm gonna jump to the bolt action groups which were also shot from the 100yrd line early in the day. I was fairly concerned/curious how these were gonna turn out as the gun seamed pretty well used and abused before I got it... First up the hornady 150gr loads. The 46.3gr charged loads were fired at the top sheet bottem left diamond but landed landed low and right on the bottom targets 11 o-clock. Because of the right impact I did adjust the scope a few clicks to the left, but made no elevation changes. The 48.1gr rounds were fired at the top sheet, upper left diamond and were not bad. I even managed to stack 2 right next to one another. The group was fairly close to POI but still to the right so I added a few more clicks of left adjustment to the scope. The 49.9gr load was fired at the top right diamond which hit home nicely. Of the 3 groups I feel the 49.9gr shows the most promise maybe? Attachment: 20220211_212355_HDR.jpg Moving the 168gr SMK loads, the first round of 45.3gr charges were fired at the top target, bottom right diamond, but landed on the lower target at the 2-3 o-clock postion. The second load of 47.2 was fired at the bottom targets blue bullseye and grouped nicely with one flyer at the bottom. The final load of 48.7gr was fired at the top targets center bullseye. While it looks like 3 shots in the center there's actually 4, with the 5th shot landing up and to the right. So of these I'd say the 47.2-48.7grs of IMR 4895 and 168gr smk makes this gun pretty happy. It also eliminated any fear I had that the barrel might be shot out. She will need a strap on cheak riser to replace my blue foam pad thats currently tapped on the stock. Another change I need to make is a different scope mount as its to far foward so that might be interesting to find..... Attachment: 20220212_110736_HDR.jpg
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_________________ You can only run for so long, and if you do you'll still be surrounded and out numbered so hold the line.
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Sat Feb 12, 2022 11:14 am |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 51919
Real Name: Steve
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Before I messed with the crown, I’d make really certain that it’s not the shooter. You need to be pretty damned good to drill 1-2” groups at 100 yards with iron sights (I can’t do it), so unless you’re pretty comfortable with the rifle, I’d do some more shooting first.
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Sat Feb 12, 2022 11:58 am |
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DoveRelease
Site Supporter
Location: Arlington wa Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 Posts: 1178
Real Name: Patrick
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Nelson nice write up on your prep & afternoon of shooting. I have two rifle rest if you want to use one on your nest range day.
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Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:46 pm |
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gunblaster
Location: Puyallup Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 Posts: 569
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FYI: the canonical match Garand load with the 168gr SMK is 47.5gr of IMR-4895. I've used the same charge to drive Hornaday 168 HPBT with good results as well. 3.340" COAL.
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Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:23 pm |
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Schoolboy
Location: Arlington wa Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 Posts: 1114
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DoveRelease wrote: Nelson nice write up on your prep & afternoon of shooting. I have two rifle rest if you want to use one on your nest range day. I will probably take you up on that! - Spoiler: show
gunblaster wrote: FYI: the canonical match Garand load with the 168gr SMK is 47.5gr of IMR-4895. I've used the same charge to drive Hornaday 168 HPBT with good results as well. 3.340" COAL. Do you think the longer COAL makes much difference?
_________________ You can only run for so long, and if you do you'll still be surrounded and out numbered so hold the line.
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Sat Mar 12, 2022 10:24 pm |
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gunblaster
Location: Puyallup Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 Posts: 569
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Schoolboy wrote: Do you think the longer COAL makes much difference? How "much" is "much"? We know that for a given powder charge, a shorter COAL will result in increased pressure. We know that a change in seating depth (or put another way, bullet jump to the lands) will affect group size / accuracy. Also we know that for a semi-auto, COAL may affect cartridge feeding. So yes, it will make a difference. How much? That's an experiment. In competition that load is typically used for shooting prone at 500 / 600 yards - single round load, slow fire. And since it's single round load, crimping is not necessary.
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Sun Mar 13, 2022 1:19 am |
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Schoolboy
Location: Arlington wa Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 Posts: 1114
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Time to dig this thread up.
I missed out on the practice shoot at MRC earlier this month so I took the next two Thursdays off to try and find a load that works for the Garand and maybe practice using a sling. So for this Thursday I'm going to try three powders, shot in 5 groups of 5 rounds. I'm also gonna push the C.O.L out to 3.30" using new sierra 168gr match kings.
Powder choices and weights are: AA2495 - 41.0, 42.0, 43.0, 44.0, 45.0 IMR4895 - 42.1, 43.4, 44.6, 45.8, 47.0 Varget - 42.5, 43.6, 44.7, 45.9, 47.0
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_________________ You can only run for so long, and if you do you'll still be surrounded and out numbered so hold the line.
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Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:40 pm |
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Duke EB
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Location: maple valley Joined: Mon May 6, 2013 Posts: 2575
Real Name: Earl
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You may want to get the throat and muzzle tools to check erosion on the garand
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Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:29 pm |
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Schoolboy
Location: Arlington wa Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 Posts: 1114
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Duke EB wrote: You may want to get the throat and muzzle tools to check erosion on the garand The card from the cmp has the throat at 4+, and muzzle at 2+.
_________________ You can only run for so long, and if you do you'll still be surrounded and out numbered so hold the line.
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Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:39 pm |
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