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Winchester 9mm with crimped Primers
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Site Moderator   Location: Olympia, Warshington. Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 Posts: 12508 Real Name: Oly Damon 
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Anyone run across WIN brass that has had the primers crimped? I have loaded about 350 rounds so far with hardly any issue with the primers going into the mixed brass ive been using (S&B, GFL, RP, FC, ect.. ). Well, first batch out of my bag of sorted WIN brass I encounter a primer that just wont go in. So I try a different one, it works like the next 5, then another just wont go. I go back and forth with this for a while untill I give up. I had taken the primer shuttle apart assuming it was not going back to center properly. I was thinking the problem was a bad extractor groove since to my eye it looked different. My thought it wasnt centering in the shell holder properly. BUT, Upon further investigation and a bunch of google trolling I found info saying people find some .223 brass with crimped primers. So last night I compared good WIN brass with bad WIN brass. With some work and chamfering of the primer pockets I was able to get the primers into the crimped pockets, but ended up tossing about 30 shells from the WIN brass I had in a bag.
Heres a photo showing the backs of the 2 brass. Can you see the crimped ones? Guess this happens sometimes with contract over runs that get pawned off in those 100 bulk boxes.  Uploaded with ImageShack.us |
| Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:35 pm |
 
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 Site Admin   Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 52039 Real Name: Steve
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Well, I can certainly see some that look different than the others . . . but am I seeing the crimps, or modifications you made to the cases?
And yes, I definitely have a tough time putting primers in some 9mm Winchester brass, but I don't have to mess with them . . . just push a little harder, kinda like S&B brass. _________________ Steve Benefactor Life Member, National Rifle Association Life Member, Second Amendment Foundation Patriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of America Life Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms Legal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy Coalition Member, NAGR/NFGR Please support the organizations that support all of us. Leave it cleaner than you found it. |
| Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:57 pm |
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Site Moderator Location: Olympia, Warshington. Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 Posts: 12508 Real Name: Oly Damon
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MadPick wrote: Well, I can certainly see some that look different than the others . . . but am I seeing the crimps, or modifications you made to the cases? And yes, I definitely have a tough time putting primers in some 9mm Winchester brass, but I don't have to mess with them . . . just push a little harder, kinda like S&B brass. I didnt mess too much with these to get the primers in. A quick turn of a primer pocket tool and maybe chamfer bit. There is a pronounced detent around the primers on the ones that give me trouble. I havent had any issue with S&B and thats a good thing, because I think I might have at least 1k in S&B brass. |
| Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:23 pm |
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Site Supporter   Location: Auburn Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 Posts: 175
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That's strange, do you have any comparison picks of the primer pockets before any Modifications?
_________________ Jeff ~ |
| Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:45 pm |
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Site Moderator Location: Olympia, Warshington. Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 Posts: 12508 Real Name: Oly Damon
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jeff1963 wrote: That's strange, do you have any comparison picks of the primer pockets before any Modifications? I don't, but can line some up tonight. I figure this brass belongs in the NATO bag... |
| Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:59 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: Bonney Lake Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 Posts: 2515 Real Name: The other Steve
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I bet those are were Winchester 9mm NATO, those have crimped primers IIRC. I have some I can look at later on tonight and tell you if they have the same crimp.
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| Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:04 pm |
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Site Moderator Location: Olympia, Warshington. Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 Posts: 12508 Real Name: Oly Damon
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Cool it would be good to know if they appear any different in the box. Strange they wouldn't be labeled as NATO on the brass.
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| Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:08 pm |
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Site Admin  Location: Olympia, WA Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 Posts: 38308 Real Name: Dan
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Are these some of the pickups we did at the range? I just want to make sure I don't have any lol.
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| Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:20 pm |
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Site Supporter Location: Bonney Lake Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 Posts: 2515 Real Name: The other Steve
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Well, I checked the 2 different kinds of 9mm NATO that I keep. They are crimped, but have different headstamps than yours. The white box is Winchester NATO Q4318 and the tan box is Winchester Ranger NATO RA9124N. Both boxes are stamped WCC 08 with NATO crosshair. I am out of ideas now.
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| Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:21 pm |
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Site Moderator Location: Olympia, Warshington. Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 Posts: 12508 Real Name: Oly Damon
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Cool thanks for the photos. You do see those same crimp marks as my brass. I have to believe the posts from google about WIN slipping in normal stamps with crimps into their mix. I have some of both of those types of brass you posted. Im starting to get enough NATO brass i might consider reworking it to reload.
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| Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:05 am |
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Site Moderator Location: Olympia, Warshington. Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 Posts: 12508 Real Name: Oly Damon
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Massivedesign wrote: Are these some of the pickups we did at the range? I just want to make sure I don't have any lol. Im not sure exactly where I got em. I have lots of range pickup i have collected and Ive bought 2k range brass. |
| Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:12 am |
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Site Supporter  Location: Marysville, WA Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 Posts: 11581 Real Name: Mike
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The WIN headstamps without the cross are not NATO but were most likely built for a sub-gun thus the crimps.
If only a few, a case deburring/chafer tool can clean it out enough so it will feed through the average progressive press or priming tool. Sometimes the interference caused by the "crimp" can effect the integrity of the primer as it's inserted and the round will fail to fire. I prefer to just chuck them when I come across them because uncrimped 9mm brass is so darn plentiful. As for the WCC headstamp, Western Cartridge Corporation (WCC) is owned by Olin Corp. which also owns Winchester (ammo). _________________ "I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother" - William Shakespeare |
| Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:14 am |
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Site Admin Location: Olympia, WA Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 Posts: 38308 Real Name: Dan
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Hear that Oly? It's for a sub... sub machine gun! Now, there is no excuse, you have to go buy a 9mm machine gun.
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| Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:28 am |
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Site Supporter  Location: East of Japan, not by much. Joined: Fri Jun 3, 2011 Posts: 12990
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Gawd - talk about sad - More than once, I have seen a good deal on ammo, or cheap brass in a caliber I don't shoot, but have seriously considered buying it all up. Then, I could get some guns to match the caliber, and some accessories to match the guns, and than some reloading dies and components to continue shooting, and before you know it, the arsenal has grown again!!! Deja vu comment there. That is a great excuse to get the machine gun, for sure! I'm jealous.
_________________ Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Give a man a fishing pole, and he will drink too much beer, get tangled in fish line, hook himself in the nose casting, fall overboard, and either drown, or, go home hungry and wet. Give a man a case of dynamite, and he will feed the whole town for a year! BE ON NOTICE: PRIVACY NOTICE: Warning - any person and/or institution and/or Agent and/or Agency of any governmental structure including but not limited to the United States Federal Government also using or monitoring/using this website or any of its associated websites, you do NOT have my permission to utilize any of my profile information nor any of the content contained herein including, but not limited to my photos, and/or the comments made about my photos or any other "picture" art posted on my profile. You are hereby notified that you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing, disseminating, or taking any other action against me with regard to this profile and the contents herein. The foregoing prohibitions also apply to your employee, agent, student or any personnel under your direction or control. The contents of this profile are PRIVATE and legally privileged and confidential information, and the violation of my personal privacy is punishable by law. UCC 1-103 1-308 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED WITHOUT PREJUDICE |
| Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:20 am |
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Site Moderator Location: Olympia, Warshington. Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 Posts: 12508 Real Name: Oly Damon
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Awesome! Another item for the X-mas list, just what one would be best? haha.
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| Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:51 am |
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