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 Who is reloading tonight? 
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You don't start re-cooping cost until the 20th year. :doh1:

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Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:42 pm
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BlDtyLry wrote:
You don't start re-cooping cost until the 20th year. :doh1:



Don't say that I was hoping to do it 400rnds :ROFLMAO:


Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:44 pm
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Last week I made up a load development starting at 6.9g with 1g increments to 7.3g CFE pistol powder. The lower loads (6.9 & 7g) grouped the best so 7g is the winner.
Just finished loading up 100) 40S&W loads, 7g of CFE pistol powder with 165g RNFP pills. :thumbsup2:

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I don't think you beat your children enough. :ROFLMAO:


Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:49 pm
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MadPick wrote:
MadPick wrote:
I'm about 1000 rounds into a .223 reloading run . . . and it has been frustrating. :frust:

Normally, .223 is just about the easiest caliber for me to reload. My brass is fully prepped and cleaned, so I can fire up the case feeder and the Hornady LNL progressive, and just push in primers, use the powder measure, and drop a bullet on top. Easy peasy, I can usually crank them out with little effort.

This time, though, I've been plagued by a few things:

- My powder measure has gotten gummed up, twice. I suddenly realize that it hasn't been dropping powder, and I then need to weigh all of the couple-hundred rounds that I just loaded to see if any don't have powder. And yes, both times I found a handful that didn't have powder or had a very low charge so I had to pull those bullets. I haven't had this happen with the powder measure before, so I'm getting it good and clean and hoping this was a temporary anomaly.

- I loaded ~400 rounds with Wolf primers, then ran out of those and switched to CCI #41. These are special primers specifically made for 5.56 loading, so they should be the cat's meow, right? Well, they're damned hard to seat all the way, so I'm beating the hell out of my arm and shoulder trying to slam them into place, and I'm still getting high primers on a regular basis. Fortunately I can feel high primers as they rotate around the press, so none are escaping but they're still a pain in the ass.

- I'm loading fully-prepped Lake City brass that I got from a deal at one point, and I finally decided that the swaging job on them wasn't all that it could have been . . . so now I need to swage them all before I load.

And yeah, the CCI #41 primer seating got slightly easier once I re-swaged the brass . . . but it's STILL a major chore. Fortunately I've used 600 of the 5,000 #41 primers that I own, so the end is just around the corner. Right? :crybaby:


OK, I was hating on the CCI #41 primers the other day, and I want to issue a partial retraction. I adjusted the pawl on my press (LNL), and the cases are now lining up better with the primers, and they are going in a lot easier. They're still tough to seat, but not nearly as bad as I made them out to be the other day. I still need to give each of them two good shoves on the press handle, though, and even with that I'm still getting occasional high primers.

I've had an RCBS "military crimp remover" sitting, new in package, for a couple of years now. I decided to break it out and try it on some .223 brass to see how it compares to the Dillon 600 Super Swage. Here it is (the thing on the left with the brass shavings around it) on my RCBS prep station:

Image

Verdict . . . it's probably a little faster, but it's tougher on the body because you need to hold each case firmly, and that gets tiresome after a while. For seating primers, it felt about the same as when I use the Super Swage. Bottom line, I'll leave it hooked up in case I need to occasionally use it, or use it for something like 5.7x28 that can't be done on the Super Swage. However, I'll stick with the Super Swage for most situations.

I also invented a new cartridge, the .203 MadPick:

Image

Obviously, it headspaces on the shoulder. Should be a bitch to feed from the mag and to chamber, but we'll see.


I call those George Jetson Boolits... I’ve made a few.... :ROFLMAO:

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Since Clint went full retard I’ll no longer use his quotes!!!!

"You are either with us...as Americans. Or, You are against us. There is no IN BETWEEN." ???

"We cannot negotiate with those who say, 'What's mine is mine, and what's yours is negotiable.'" JFK

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”

-Ben Franklin

MadPick wrote:
I don't think you beat your children enough. :ROFLMAO:


Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:03 pm
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MadPick wrote:
MadPick wrote:
MadPick wrote:
Tonight I loaded up some test rounds of .223 using 55-grain bullets and the SMP-842 powder from sagewa, in charge weights ranging from 21.5gr to 24.5gr. Hopefully I'll get them chrony tested on Saturday.


And . . . got 'er done, with the Labradar. thumbsup

I used a cheapo Palmetto 16" AR-15, and got the following results with 5-6 rounds of each charge:

21.5 grains SMP-842: 2542 fps, gun functioned fine -- loaded subsequent rounds, and locked back on an empty mag
22.0 grains SMP-842: 2607 fps
22.5 grains SMP-842: 2642 fps
23.0 grains SMP-842: 2726 fps
23.5 grains SMP-842: 2789 fps
24.0 grains SMP-842: 2831 fps
24.5 grains SMP-842: 2913 fps

I had one blown-out primer about halfway through the range, but I think it was just a loose primer pocket in the brass. Otherwise all of the brass looked fine.

For comparison, my normal "blasting ammo" uses 24.5 grains of AA2230 and a 55-grain FMJ, and gave me 2,969 fps from the same rifle today.

So it seems that 24.5 grains has me in the right ballpark . . . I'm not sure if I want to try to push them faster still, or just be happy with that. Thoughts, anyone?


Nitro_Guns wrote:
Loading for a "velocity" is one thing.
Loading for "accuracy" is another.
How did the 24.5gr load group?


MadPick wrote:
For what I call my "blasting ammo," which will be shot out of a bunch of different guns and not for group size, I'm not sure if accuracy out of one particular gun will matter . . . ? I'm using cheap bullets and cheap powder, so I tend to try to get them to function properly, and then call it good.


I went out to finish the job today . . . Nitro shamed me into doing some accuracy testing. :facepalm2: But first, let's do the velocity data from today:

Bullets: M193 55-grain "air-pulled" that I bought from dougja a hundred years ago.
Primers: Wolf SR

24.3 grains SMP-842: 2829 fps (16" barrel), 3082 fps (24" barrel)
24.5 grains SMP-842: 2859 fps (16" barrel), 3108 fps (24" barrel)
24.7 grains SMP-842: 2871 fps (16" barrel), 3147 fps (24" barrel)
24.9 grains SMP-842: 2924 fps (16" barrel), 3185 fps (24" barrel)

Again for comparison, my normal blasting ammo with 24.5 grains of AA2230 and a 55-grain FMJ gave me 3189 fps from the 24" barrel.

So yeah, I got set up for some accuracy testing with the 24" AR, which is capable of 0.5 MOA groups (maybe even better) with the right ammo:

Image

The results:

24.3 grains: 2.5 MOA
24.5 grains: 3 MOA
24.7 grains: 4 MOA
24.9 grains: 3.5 MOA

In other words, they all suck . . . but honestly, I didn't expect any better with the bullets I was using. I blame the bullets, not the powder.

So what load should I use for mass production? :bigsmile:


Sorry about the long quote . . . just wanting to keep all of this data in one post.

So I wanted to do a little more testing with this SMP-842 powder, because I felt like I was giving it a bad rap by only testing it with shitty bullets, and getting accuracy no better than 2.5 MOA. I loaded up a single charge weight with four different kinds of bullets, all with CCI #41 primers, and the results based on shooting two 5-shot groups of each are below. All shooting was done, this time, with my Mossberg MVP-LR, which has a 1:7 20" barrel.

1) Hornady 55-grain flat-base soft point, 24.9gr of SMP-842, 2998 fps
2) Hornady 55-grain boattail soft point, 24.9gr of SMP-842, 3031 fps
3) Hornady 50-grain Zmax, 24.9gr of SMP-842, 3115 fps
4) Sierra 77-grain MatchKing, 22.0gr of SMP-842, 2571 fps

Best groups were from my main man the Zmax, with one at 0.95 MOA and one at 1.04. The other bullets were all in the 1.5-2.0 MOA range, roughly -- nothing great, but better than the M193 bullets tested earlier.

So yeah, nothing spectacular . . . but I only shot a couple of groups of each, and I only tested one charge weight.

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Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:46 pm
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MadPick wrote:
MadPick wrote:
MadPick wrote:
MadPick wrote:
Tonight I loaded up some test rounds of .223 using 55-grain bullets and the SMP-842 powder from sagewa, in charge weights ranging from 21.5gr to 24.5gr. Hopefully I'll get them chrony tested on Saturday.


And . . . got 'er done, with the Labradar. thumbsup

I used a cheapo Palmetto 16" AR-15, and got the following results with 5-6 rounds of each charge:

21.5 grains SMP-842: 2542 fps, gun functioned fine -- loaded subsequent rounds, and locked back on an empty mag
22.0 grains SMP-842: 2607 fps
22.5 grains SMP-842: 2642 fps
23.0 grains SMP-842: 2726 fps
23.5 grains SMP-842: 2789 fps
24.0 grains SMP-842: 2831 fps
24.5 grains SMP-842: 2913 fps

I had one blown-out primer about halfway through the range, but I think it was just a loose primer pocket in the brass. Otherwise all of the brass looked fine.

For comparison, my normal "blasting ammo" uses 24.5 grains of AA2230 and a 55-grain FMJ, and gave me 2,969 fps from the same rifle today.

So it seems that 24.5 grains has me in the right ballpark . . . I'm not sure if I want to try to push them faster still, or just be happy with that. Thoughts, anyone?


Nitro_Guns wrote:
Loading for a "velocity" is one thing.
Loading for "accuracy" is another.
How did the 24.5gr load group?


MadPick wrote:
For what I call my "blasting ammo," which will be shot out of a bunch of different guns and not for group size, I'm not sure if accuracy out of one particular gun will matter . . . ? I'm using cheap bullets and cheap powder, so I tend to try to get them to function properly, and then call it good.


I went out to finish the job today . . . Nitro shamed me into doing some accuracy testing. :facepalm2: But first, let's do the velocity data from today:

Bullets: M193 55-grain "air-pulled" that I bought from dougja a hundred years ago.
Primers: Wolf SR

24.3 grains SMP-842: 2829 fps (16" barrel), 3082 fps (24" barrel)
24.5 grains SMP-842: 2859 fps (16" barrel), 3108 fps (24" barrel)
24.7 grains SMP-842: 2871 fps (16" barrel), 3147 fps (24" barrel)
24.9 grains SMP-842: 2924 fps (16" barrel), 3185 fps (24" barrel)

Again for comparison, my normal blasting ammo with 24.5 grains of AA2230 and a 55-grain FMJ gave me 3189 fps from the 24" barrel.

So yeah, I got set up for some accuracy testing with the 24" AR, which is capable of 0.5 MOA groups (maybe even better) with the right ammo:

Image

The results:

24.3 grains: 2.5 MOA
24.5 grains: 3 MOA
24.7 grains: 4 MOA
24.9 grains: 3.5 MOA

In other words, they all suck . . . but honestly, I didn't expect any better with the bullets I was using. I blame the bullets, not the powder.

So what load should I use for mass production? :bigsmile:


Sorry about the long quote . . . just wanting to keep all of this data in one post.

So I wanted to do a little more testing with this SMP-842 powder, because I felt like I was giving it a bad rap by only testing it with shitty bullets, and getting accuracy no better than 2.5 MOA. I loaded up a single charge weight with four different kinds of bullets, all with CCI #41 primers, and the results based on shooting two 5-shot groups of each are below. All shooting was done, this time, with my Mossberg MVP-LR, which has a 1:7 20" barrel.

1) Hornady 55-grain flat-base soft point, 24.9gr of SMP-842, 2998 fps
2) Hornady 55-grain boattail soft point, 24.9gr of SMP-842, 3031 fps
3) Hornady 50-grain Zmax, 24.9gr of SMP-842, 3115 fps
4) Sierra 77-grain MatchKing, 22.0gr of SMP-842, 2571 fps

Best groups were from my main man the Zmax, with one at 0.95 MOA and one at 1.04. The other bullets were all in the 1.5-2.0 MOA range, roughly -- nothing great, but better than the M193 bullets tested earlier.

So yeah, nothing spectacular . . . but I only shot a couple of groups of each, and I only tested one charge weight.


What is your twist rate on the 24" barrel?

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Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:16 pm
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It is funny that you call your "normal blasting ammo with 24.5 grains of AA2230 and a 55-grain FMJ gave me 3189 fps"....

All of the groups that I have posted above are with 24.3gr of AA2230 with a 53gr Hornady V-Max at 3200 fps.
You can see the result....

Bullet selection, along with the rifle/barrel combo, is important.

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Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:21 pm
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Nitro_Guns wrote:
Bullet selection, along with the rifle/barrel combo, is important.


Absolutely. For accuracy, I think a quality bullet is THE most important factor.

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Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:34 pm
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MadPick wrote:
Nitro_Guns wrote:
Bullet selection, along with the rifle/barrel combo, is important.


Absolutely. For accuracy, I think a quality bullet is THE most important factor.


What twist rate are you shooting?

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Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:51 pm
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My AR that I used for accuracy testing of the M193 bullets is 1:8. The MVP that I used for the latest testing is 1:7.

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Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:51 pm
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MadPick wrote:
My AR that I used for accuracy testing of the M193 bullets is 1:8. The MVP that I used for the latest testing is 1:7.


Those should both prefer heavier bullets, especially the 1:7

62gr and up would be my go to.

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Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:14 pm
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Nitro_Guns wrote:
62gr and up would be my go to.


You’d think ... but I still haven’t found anything that beats the 50-grain Zmax!

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Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:43 pm
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MadPick wrote:
Nitro_Guns wrote:
62gr and up would be my go to.


You’d think ... but I still haven’t found anything that beats the 50-grain Zmax!


Amazing how the numbers just don't work at times.
Just be carefull at what velocity you push them at.

At 3100+ fps, you are running a risk of bullet failure at those twist rates.
But stay with what works the best.

I am building another new 223 that will be for 70+ gr bullets.
Goota have something for fun...LOL

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Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:50 pm
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Nitro_Guns wrote:
At 3100+ fps, you are running a risk of bullet failure at those twist rates.
But stay with what works the best.


My Zmax bullets are running about 3400 fps from my 24" AR, and 3300 fps from my 20" MVP. The bullets DO explode in flight . . . as they are passing through the prairie dog. :ROFLMAO:

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Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:58 am
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MadPick wrote:
Nitro_Guns wrote:
At 3100+ fps, you are running a risk of bullet failure at those twist rates.
But stay with what works the best.


My Zmax bullets are running about 3400 fps from my 24" AR, and 3300 fps from my 20" MVP. The bullets DO explode in flight . . . as they are passing through the prairie dog. :ROFLMAO:


You need to shoot some groups at 300 to 500 yards and see how the groups hold up.
That spin rate is insanely fast.

100 yards, while a good indicator, sometimes does not tell the whole truth.

Even those groups that I posted at 200 yards are double checked out to 640 yards prior to trekking to North Dakota.

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