Gun store Shooting Locations It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:16 pm



Rules WGO Chat Room Gear Rent Me Shield NRA SAF CCKRBA
Calendar




Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
 Clays for 45 acp, or something else 
Author Message
Online
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Tacoma
Joined: Sat May 4, 2013
Posts: 6194
I have a jug of clays on hand from sporting clays reloading. Was considering using it for 45 acp. with 230 gr xtreme plated bullets. I find that the min and max loads are 3.5 - 4.0 grains. OAL is 1.2

This powder,causes me two,concerns

1. My powder thrower can vary 0.2 grains, which is almost 40% of the recommended load range
2. The amount of powder in the case is tiny, leading to possible double or triple charges

Would I be better served, as a beginner in metallic cartridge reloading, to use a less sensitive powder, or one that fills more of the case?

What say you guys?


Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:51 pm
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar
Site Admin

Location: Renton, WA
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011
Posts: 51917
Real Name: Steve
Arisaka wrote:
Would I be better served, as a beginner in metallic cartridge reloading, to use a less sensitive powder, or one that fills more of the case?

What say you guys?


You'll get all kinds of opinions on this, so you won't get "the" answer.

I say no, you're fine using a powder that doesn't fill the case. No matter which powder you use, you NEED to ensure that you don't double-charge a case. There are different ways of doing that, which will vary depending on the press type you use, the equipment you have, and your confidence level in your process. But, especially when you're starting out, be VERY conscious of this and make damned sure it doesn't happen.

As for the variation from your power measure, do you mean that it goes +/- 0.1? I suspect that's what you mean, for a 0.2 total spread. I think that's fine, and to be expected from a powder measure. Just work up your load properly (make some at the starting charge, then a little higher, then a little higher, etc.), and don't go any higher than you're comfortable with given the variation from the powder measure.

So, if the book says that the range is 3.5 - 4.0, I'd probably make a few rounds each of 3.5, 3.6, 3.7, 3.8, 3.9 and 4.0. (Or maybe 3.5, 3.7, 3.9, 4.0.) Then I'd go to the range and shoot them, starting at the lower charge, then working your way up. If at any point you feel uncomfortable and that something isn't right, or is unsafe, stop. (That probably won't happen, I suspect they'll all be just fine.)

Let's say that your gun functions fine and you like the feel of 3.8 grains, for example. Then great, you can use that as your charge going forward, knowing that even on your powder measure's worst day, you'll never exceed the 4.0 load that you already know is safe based on your range testing.

Unless, of course, you double charge a case. :bigsmile:

_________________
Steve

Benefactor Life Member, National Rifle Association
Life Member, Second Amendment Foundation
Patriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of America
Life Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms
Legal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy Coalition
Member, NAGR/NFGR

Please support the organizations that support all of us.

Leave it cleaner than you found it.


Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:59 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: West Olympia
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012
Posts: 6816
Real Name: Matt
Clays was the first powder I ever used when I was doing 38 special. I used up that pound and could not find any more so I switched to bullseye. I did buy an 8 pound jug of it last year and will probably keep it for shotshell reloading. But I would not be afraid to use it in pistol. The main thing I would be interested in is how clean does it burn in a 45. I would imagine with a heavy 230 grain bullet, you should be fine.

_________________
"I'm Hub McCann. I've fought in two World Wars and countless smaller ones on three continents. I led thousands of men into battle with everything from horses and swords to artillery and TANKS! I've seen the headwaters of the Nile, and tribes of natives no white man had ever seen before. I've won and lost a dozen fortunes, KILLED MANY MEN! And loved only one woman, with a passion a FLEA like you could never begin to understand. That's who I am. NOW, GO HOME, BOY!"



"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones". Albert Einstein 1947


Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:02 pm
Profile
In Memoriam
User avatar
In Memoriam

Joined: Wed Mar 6, 2013
Posts: 12018
MadPick wrote:
You'll get all kinds of opinions on this, so you won't get "the" answer.

I say no, you're fine using a powder that doesn't fill the case. No matter which powder you use, you NEED to ensure that you don't double-charge a case. There are different ways of doing that, which will vary depending on the press type you use, the equipment you have, and your confidence level in your process. But, especially when you're starting out, be VERY conscious of this and make damned sure it doesn't happen.

As for the variation from your power measure, do you mean that it goes +/- 0.1? I suspect that's what you mean, for a 0.2 total spread. I think that's fine, and to be expected from a powder measure. Just work up your load properly (make some at the starting charge, then a little higher, then a little higher, etc.), and don't go any higher than you're comfortable with given the variation from the powder measure.

So, if the book says that the range is 3.5 - 4.0, I'd probably make a few rounds each of 3.5, 3.6, 3.7, 3.8, 3.9 and 4.0. (Or maybe 3.5, 3.7, 3.9, 4.0.) Then I'd go to the range and shoot them, starting at the lower charge, then working your way up. If at any point you feel uncomfortable and that something isn't right, or is unsafe, stop. (That probably won't happen, I suspect they'll all be just fine.)

Let's say that your gun functions fine and you like the feel of 3.8 grains, for example. Then great, you can use that as your charge going forward, knowing that even on your powder measure's worst day, you'll never exceed the 4.0 load that you already know is safe based on your range testing.

Unless, of course, you double charge a case. :bigsmile:


+1 to all that. I frequently load with powders that don't fill >1/2 the case.
Maybe it's even good to start with a load like this, so you make triply sure that you don't double charge.


Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:03 pm
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar
Site Admin

Location: Renton, WA
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011
Posts: 51917
Real Name: Steve
Arisaka wrote:
I have a jug of clays on hand from sporting clays reloading. Was considering using it for 45 acp. with 230 gr xtreme plated bullets. I find that the min and max loads are 3.5 - 4.0 grains. OAL is 1.2


Are these round nose bullets?

I know that Hodgdon shows 1.2" as the OAL for both lead round nose and jacketed flat point bullets, but if you're using round nose I'd go for an OAL that's more typical, something like 1.25". I think this will feed better, and it will also lower the pressure spike.

_________________
Steve

Benefactor Life Member, National Rifle Association
Life Member, Second Amendment Foundation
Patriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of America
Life Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms
Legal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy Coalition
Member, NAGR/NFGR

Please support the organizations that support all of us.

Leave it cleaner than you found it.


Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:13 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: The banana belt of Sequim
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016
Posts: 2299
Real Name: Jay
I used clays for years for a light load of .45 Long Colt, out of a RCBS progressive press.
IIRC, 5.2 grains with a 225gr. lead bullet, gave around 975fps out of the revolvers.
Powder throw was consistent enough for me.

_________________
Jay

The Right to Buy Weapons Is the Right to Be Free


Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:18 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Skagit County, in the woods
Joined: Tue Apr 7, 2015
Posts: 1058
Arisaka wrote:
I have a jug of clays on hand from sporting clays reloading. Was considering using it for 45 acp. with 230 gr xtreme plated bullets. I find that the min and max loads are 3.5 - 4.0 grains. OAL is 1.2

This powder,causes me two,concerns

1. My powder thrower can vary 0.2 grains, which is almost 40% of the recommended load range
2. The amount of powder in the case is tiny, leading to possible double or triple charges

Would I be better served, as a beginner in metallic cartridge reloading, to use a less sensitive powder, or one that fills more of the case?

What say you guys?


I suggest a different powder, because of Clay's fast burning characteristics rather than case fill. Like Bullseye, Clays is good in the 45 with light target loads using 185-200gr SWC bullets. For a heavier bullet and mid-range to full power loads, Universal or Unique work better and are less sensitive to pressure spikes. Universal (actually called Universal Clays) is similar to Clays but has a slower burn rate that is more appropriate to the application you described.


Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:45 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Arlington wa
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018
Posts: 1178
Real Name: Patrick
If you powder thrower goes that far off target cut it back and use a trickler to get it right on.
Some powders dont register as good as others. For just plinking I go just above minimum and call it good.


Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:51 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: maple valley
Joined: Mon May 6, 2013
Posts: 2575
Real Name: Earl
If you want to go high class, use Vihtavuori 320. I'm using it for 40 and 45.


Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:30 pm
Profile
Online
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Tacoma
Joined: Sat May 4, 2013
Posts: 6194
Duke EB wrote:
If you want to go high class, use Vihtavuori 320. I'm using it for 40 and 45.

I can't find that stuff locally anywhere. Do you have a place?
I dont like buying online and having to pay the hazardous material charges.


Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:50 pm
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar
Site Admin

Location: Renton, WA
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011
Posts: 51917
Real Name: Steve
Arisaka wrote:
I dont like buying online and having to pay the hazardous material charges.


Do you prefer to pay higher prices and sales tax? :bigsmile:

If you're just going to buy a pound, then local is the way to go. If you're buying larger quantities, both powder and primers, then the hazmat charge is insignificant.

As you're seeing, there are about a thousand different powders that will work for .45, and everyone has their pet for various reasons. Yeah, N320 is nice stuff, meters well, burns clean . . . but it's expensive and it doesn't meet the "get something slow and fluffy that fills the case" goal.

I still think you should just load with what you've got, and when that's gone or you want to try something different, then shop for something else. However, you can make an awful lot of perfectly good .45 rounds with the Clays that you already have on hand.

_________________
Steve

Benefactor Life Member, National Rifle Association
Life Member, Second Amendment Foundation
Patriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of America
Life Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms
Legal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy Coalition
Member, NAGR/NFGR

Please support the organizations that support all of us.

Leave it cleaner than you found it.


Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:53 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: maple valley
Joined: Mon May 6, 2013
Posts: 2575
Real Name: Earl
Arisaka wrote:
Duke EB wrote:
If you want to go high class, use Vihtavuori 320. I'm using it for 40 and 45.

I can't find that stuff locally anywhere. Do you have a place?
I dont like buying online and having to pay the hazardous material charges.

Pinto's, Sportsmans warehouse, sportco, all have had it at one time or another.
If you're going to load for competition, you need a bunch of powder. Online is the cheapest, hazmat or not.


Last edited by Duke EB on Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:47 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: maple valley
Joined: Mon May 6, 2013
Posts: 2575
Real Name: Earl
MadPick wrote:
Arisaka wrote:
I dont like buying online and having to pay the hazardous material charges.


Do you prefer to pay higher prices and sales tax? :bigsmile:

If you're just going to buy a pound, then local is the way to go. If you're buying larger quantities, both powder and primers, then the hazmat charge is insignificant.

As you're seeing, there are about a thousand different powders that will work for .45, and everyone has their pet for various reasons. Yeah, N320 is nice stuff, meters well, burns clean . . . but it's expensive and it doesn't meet the "get something slow and fluffy that fills the case" goal.

I still think you should just load with what you've got, and when that's gone or you want to try something different, then shop for something else. However, you can make an awful lot of perfectly good .45 rounds with the Clays that you already have on hand.

Slow (powder burn rate?) was not part of the question. 320 is little sticks, fills the case pretty well. A double charge is very noticeable, unlike some of the flake powders (Titegroup I'm looking at you!)


Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:48 pm
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: maple valley
Joined: Mon May 6, 2013
Posts: 2575
Real Name: Earl
Couple more things: Madpick is right, there are a great number of powders for 45. Mostly you'll want the faster powders, clays, n320, aa2, etc.
Clays is actually a popular choice, because of soft recoil. The metering issue is troubling, I think you need to get that worked out before anything else.


Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:21 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: NW Montana
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015
Posts: 1764
Real Name: (Breck)
Arisaka wrote:
I have a jug of clays on hand from sporting clays reloading. Was considering using it for 45 acp. with 230 gr xtreme plated bullets. I find that the min and max loads are 3.5 - 4.0 grains. OAL is 1.2

This powder,causes me two,concerns

1. My powder thrower can vary 0.2 grains, which is almost 40% of the recommended load range
2. The amount of powder in the case is tiny, leading to possible double or triple charges

Would I be better served, as a beginner in metallic cartridge reloading, to use a less sensitive powder, or one that fills more of the case?

What say you guys?


I use Clays exclusively for shotgun reloading. If you’d like to try a different powder, let me know if you’d like to do a trade. I think I have a full pound of CFE Pistol, for instance.


Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:37 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum



Rules WGO Chat Room Gear Rent Me NRA SAF CCKRBA
Calendar


Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software for PTF.
[ Time : 1.871s | 16 Queries | GZIP : Off ]