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 Secure radio communications : A primer 

Radio programming options
A) Only has a couple channels, and that's to communicate with family or friends 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
B) A, Plus local stuff in your county 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
C) A and B plus stuff in your surrounding counties 14%  14%  [ 5 ]
D) The kitchen sink ( Federal interop, State Patrol, DNR, CBP, etc) divided into manageable zones. 83%  83%  [ 29 ]
Total votes : 35

 Secure radio communications : A primer 
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so i ran my other (good) battery from about 1645 yesterday until about 0900 this morning until it died. is that about normal run time?


Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:38 am
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TechnoWeenie wrote:

Yes, you can buy a model 1 in VHF, then add on the components to make it a model 3 without dicking with tracking data (tuning info).


Is that pretty much PNP or is there programming involved to get a I to act like a III?

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Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:06 am
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movingviolation wrote:
so i ran my other (good) battery from about 1645 yesterday until about 0900 this morning until it died. is that about normal run time?


Are all the batteries the same part #? If so, that's great. You have one of the smaller capacity batteries, so, to get over 16 hours of rx time is pretty good. The radio is designed to last an 8 hour shift, and once you factor in some transmitting, which draws a lot more power, you should be over that mark. And again, if they're the same part number, that's a pretty small battery, the replacement 4.5AH batteries should last you a LONG time... Radios sitting on a trunked radio system are constantly receiving the control channel, and die relatively quickly compared to sitting on a conventional channel with no audio..

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Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:58 am
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RocketScott wrote:
TechnoWeenie wrote:

Yes, you can buy a model 1 in VHF, then add on the components to make it a model 3 without dicking with tracking data (tuning info).


Is that pretty much PNP or is there programming involved to get a I to act like a III?


Programming involving advanced software that's different than the software used to normally program it....Advanced software that I won't give out, but will help you with for free.

That advanced software has too much potential to turn your radio into a paperweight if used incorrectly, so, allowing anyone to use it isn't in their best interest. It's widely available if you know where to look for it, but I won't be distributing it, but again, I'll help you get it squared away if you decide to go that route, no charge.

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Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:01 am
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TechnoWeenie wrote:
Are all the batteries the same part #?

the good one is the same part# as the one that was somewhat revived, NNTN4435B
the one that didn't accept CPR is NNTN6034A

so, yesterday after running the revived battery on a few drain/recharge/drain/recharge cycles i left it on the charger overnight with radio turned off. this morning i turned it on at 1000 and let it run again, it's still running as a type... yesterday it was about 1 hour run time with 30 minutes recharge... we'll see how it goes today


Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:28 am
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TechnoWeenie wrote:
RocketScott wrote:
TechnoWeenie wrote:

Yes, you can buy a model 1 in VHF, then add on the components to make it a model 3 without dicking with tracking data (tuning info).


Is that pretty much PNP or is there programming involved to get a I to act like a III?


Programming involving advanced software that's different than the software used to normally program it....Advanced software that I won't give out, but will help you with for free.

That advanced software has too much potential to turn your radio into a paperweight if used incorrectly, so, allowing anyone to use it isn't in their best interest. It's widely available if you know where to look for it, but I won't be distributing it, but again, I'll help you get it squared away if you decide to go that route, no charge.


Cool. Yea, I wouldn't need that software beyond the initial setup

I'm seeing model IIIs in 700/800 and model Is in 136/174 for around $100. Figure I can mix parts and make a model III 136/174 and still have a model I 700/800 to either sell or use for something else

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Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:32 am
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and hamstudying :thumbsup2:


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Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:34 am
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movingviolation wrote:
TechnoWeenie wrote:
Are all the batteries the same part #?

the good one is the same part# as the one that was somewhat revived, NNTN4435B
the one that didn't accept CPR is NNTN6034A


The 6034 is a Li-IOn battery... you're lucky it didn't explody... That's why I told you not to do it on Li-Ion batteries.. lol The 4435 is Ni-Mh and 1800mah and should recover halfway decently if it's just dead from non-use.

Quote:
so, yesterday after running the revived battery on a few drain/recharge/drain/recharge cycles i left it on the charger overnight with radio turned off. this morning i turned it on at 1000 and let it run again, it's still running as a type... yesterday it was about 1 hour run time with 30 minutes recharge... we'll see how it goes today


Now, here's my challenge to you.

Find out why it works or doesn't work.

Don't settle with going through the motions, or 'I did what he told me to do, and it's working', find out WHY it's working (or not working) so you can apply that knowledge to future situations.

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Thomas Paine wrote:
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Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:50 am
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RocketScott wrote:
TechnoWeenie wrote:
RocketScott wrote:
TechnoWeenie wrote:

Yes, you can buy a model 1 in VHF, then add on the components to make it a model 3 without dicking with tracking data (tuning info).


Is that pretty much PNP or is there programming involved to get a I to act like a III?


Programming involving advanced software that's different than the software used to normally program it....Advanced software that I won't give out, but will help you with for free.

That advanced software has too much potential to turn your radio into a paperweight if used incorrectly, so, allowing anyone to use it isn't in their best interest. It's widely available if you know where to look for it, but I won't be distributing it, but again, I'll help you get it squared away if you decide to go that route, no charge.


Cool. Yea, I wouldn't need that software beyond the initial setup

I'm seeing model IIIs in 700/800 and model Is in 136/174 for around $100. Figure I can mix parts and make a model III 136/174 and still have a model I 700/800 to either sell or use for something else


The model 1 700/800 can be used to monitor King Co and Seattle...

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Thomas Paine wrote:
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Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:51 am
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TechnoWeenie wrote:
Now, here's my challenge to you.

Find out why it works or doesn't work.

Don't settle with going through the motions, or 'I did what he told me to do, and it's working', find out WHY it's working (or not working) so you can apply that knowledge to future situations.


i'm not sure what exactly you mean. how does an uber noob find out why the battery works or not?
i mean i can whip out a multimeter and test and compare to the good one, but i'm not super handy with it either...
other than that i'm not sure what else i can do


Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:10 pm
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movingviolation wrote:
TechnoWeenie wrote:
Now, here's my challenge to you.

Find out why it works or doesn't work.

Don't settle with going through the motions, or 'I did what he told me to do, and it's working', find out WHY it's working (or not working) so you can apply that knowledge to future situations.


i'm not sure what exactly you mean. how does an uber noob find out why the battery works or not?
i mean i can whip out a multimeter and test and compare to the good one, but i'm not super handy with it either...
other than that i'm not sure what else i can do


'Why does a battery stop holding a charge?'
'What happens if a battery sits for a long time?'
'What are batteries made of and how do they work?'

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Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:28 pm
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Does it matter if the radio comes with or without an encryption board?

I see that there are four listed in the parts schematic:

NTN9837A DES, DES-XL, DES-OFB with DVP-XL Encryption Kit - UCM
NTN9838A DVI-XL Encryption Kit - UCM
NTN9839A DVP-XL Encryption Kit - UCM
NNTN4006A DES, DES-XL, DES-OFB Encryption Kit - UCM

I know you touched on this in your first post. Seems like for our purposes we don't need them

ETA: Found this explanation of the different encoding methods. It's for 1995, the before time, so some of the info is dated

https://www.radioreference.com/trunked/stuff/encrypt.html#:~:text=DES%20is%20capable%20of%20using,that%20in%20just%20a%20minute.

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Last edited by RocketScott on Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:19 pm
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This is where things get a little muddy for me, still researching on the topic. The part 97 rules prohibit "messages encoded for the purpose of obscuring their meaning, except as otherwise provided herein;". So does that cover encryption? Encoding? Pig Latin?


Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:29 pm
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laneends wrote:
This is where things get a little muddy for me, still researching on the topic. The part 97 rules prohibit "messages encoded for the purpose of obscuring their meaning, except as otherwise provided herein;". So does that cover encryption? Encoding? Pig Latin?


On ham, you're allowed to use encryption provided the protocol is public, and the key is public. Then it's just another digital mode.

This requires AES-256, or other public modes.

The XTS5000 supports ADP, which is software encryption, but is proprietary and not compliant to be used on amateur frequencies, legally speaking.

ADP is allowed to be used on MURS.

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Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:57 pm
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RocketScott wrote:
Does it matter if the radio comes with or without an encryption board?

I see that there are four listed in the parts schematic:

NTN9837A DES, DES-XL, DES-OFB with DVP-XL Encryption Kit - UCM
NTN9838A DVI-XL Encryption Kit - UCM
NTN9839A DVP-XL Encryption Kit - UCM
NNTN4006A DES, DES-XL, DES-OFB Encryption Kit - UCM

I know you touched on this in your first post. Seems like for our purposes we don't need them

ETA: Found this explanation of the different encoding methods. It's for 1995, the before time, so some of the info is dated

https://www.radioreference.com/trunked/stuff/encrypt.html#:~:text=DES%20is%20capable%20of%20using,that%20in%20just%20a%20minute.



You don't need a UCM for ADP, since it's software based.

If you wanted to run something like AES, you'd not only need a UCM, but you'd need it loaded with the AES-256 algorithm, have a keyloader, and have every radio meet those same requirements. My plan was to use ADP, since it's not gonna get cracked by any Joe Blow, which is the idea.

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Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:59 pm
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