My take is based on a few of my friends, not on oldkim's friends.

My friends don't want guns in the house, based on fear of accidents outweighing fear of bad guys. They simply don't want the item in their house. I bet that I could show them how to make them, and they might be open to that idea of knowing how to make them, and even having all the parts on hand. But I have 95% confidence that they would not preassemble the device.

It doesn't matter that "When seconds count, it'll take minutes to assemble."

I gotta agree overall with Dan10mmman here.

A trivial investment in a gun and ammo now put in a lockbox and forgotten about now, is far better than trying to mill a gun in an emergency. The latter would be laughably stupid and pathetic hopeless attempt.

Add a trivial amount of actual training now with said actual real gun would do WORLDS of good.

The reality is that you're not serious about prepping if you reject one of the most fundamental prepping items. WASTE. OF. TIME.

I no longer have any idea what this thread is about

trying to understand, so your friends will NOT have a gun in the house post SHTF?
If they will, then they still need to do all the other prep, such as figuring out storage, getting ammo, holster, training.
would they profit from using S.I.R.T? https://nextleveltraining.com

Oh, I might be kind of where Arisaka is...

I try to keep them engaged so that they will be willing in the future. Right now they are opposed to having a firearm in their home.
I operate on the assumption that most rational people will welcome firearms POST SHTF. Still, old habits and old beliefs die hard.



I think this may be part of the communications breakdown in this thread. Some people are opposed to firearms sufficiently to believe that they will never need one.
Many people do not expect to ever be in a SHTF situation, right? I base that bold statement on the fact that the vast majority of people who I know well do not take preparedness seriously at all.

What I mean by the first statement is this: I've had this conversation so many times with family and friends I could make a sound board to answer the usual questions. When you've personally witnessed people with full sized handguns that can't hit a body target at 7 yards, you realize having a gun is only half the equation. Not too different from the "I have an 80% lower but no machining skills" discussion. And these are people that made the decision to own a gun and get better with it! Where would a "non" firearm person start from?

Sure, people with no training can have good outcomes. Recently there was a story of an old lady defending her home with an ancient S&W top break revolver. 100% she's never been to Thunder Ranch or subscribes to Handguns. It and her right index finger were enough. But to quote the great American philosopher Christopher Rock, "[T]hat don't mean it's to be done! Shit, you can drive a car with your feet if you want to, that don't make it a good fucking idea!"

Personally I think movies and pop culture have conditioned a lot of people into believing that if you just send enough lead downrange you'll get a good outcome. Shotguns only need to be aimed in the general direction to hit bad guys. You can always get good sight picture with a rifle, and never have to account for drop/wind/elevation difference/etc. Trigger control is never discussed.

I'm not sure how people interpret that I think there should be mandatory government training? Of course not. I just don't have a lot of respect for people that buy firearms for personal defense and refuse to learn how they work...or, almost as bad, blaze off a box of 50 at the range and put it away, never to be shot again.

Yeah I don't know about all of that but this state is full of car owners who don't know how to drive.

By assemble I mean, cut the pipes, and prep them. Drill the cap. Prep the bolt and put it in the cap.

In other words, not just a pile of pipes and other parts. What I mean is loose pipes and caps, etc, that are all ready to be put together.

Maybe assemble just one, and fire it once, to show them how to make/use them.

Then, if you want several, make the parts for several. The minute or two that it would take to put one together is nothing compared to the time it would take to finish an 80% and put the gun together.

try explaining in terms of a Ulysses pact https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_pact
You know that drunk you cannot be trusted to drive you home safely/without getting arrested, so *before* it becomes a problem, you make plans/take actions to avoid the negative outcomes.
Your friends have to get specific about exactly what security when SHTF means to them, then make plans/take actions now to avoid unwanted outcomes.
Or, i guess, just...numchucks.

Move to Canada.

I like baseball and beer and brown-haired women.

Just relax everyone. Don't take any of this too seriously!

This thread makes about an much sense as Caitlyn Jenner. I'm trying to find some value, but it's not making sense.

I have enough guns and ammo to arm my whole neighborhood, no need for my immediate neighbors to look for a drill to make some unproven plastic piece of crap 80% pistol. I'll hand them a German made Sig or a Glock and teach them how to use it. If they come back to try and loot my house, I guess I'll get my weapon back.

As for people who don't want firearms and refuse to prepare for a SHTF situation - too bad, too sad.

This is clear and concise. Truth in buckets full.

Yet, we must acknowledge that there are some who will receive the truth; some who will deny the truth--and some who simply do not want to believe that the truth exists. And--here is the truth...

First of all, a disclaimer: I am not an operator, a high-speed commando, and I did not attend one day of highly specialized training in any RangerNavySEALAir Force Academy.

That being said...I hear lots and lots of people talk about survival if the poop hits the oscillator. Acknowledging that it can happen is fine. But I tell you, here and now, that even though a viable means of defense IS of great importance, the majority of people do not make the decisions that are even MORE important and that will impact them before a firearm is even brought into play.

1. Fight...or flight?

Are you going to bug out? If so, how the heck are you going to carry your 10K rounds of ammunition, 500 gallons of water and enough food to last? How about clothes? Shelter?
If you're going to stay, do you have the essentials ready? By that, I mean that you might have a Camdex loader set up, a safe full of guns, body armor and all the tacticool goodies...and your water source is simply a well that takes an electric pump to use or even worse, city water.

2. How are you gonna clean up?

The single biggest threat is NOT the boogey man who goes bump in the night--but dirt, infection and possible sickness or disease. So...what's your clean up plan, or as we called it in the Army..field Sanitation? If you choose to stay in place, pooping in a 5 gallon bucket will get REAL old, REAL fast. How about food debris? How are you going to wash your dishes? What are you going to do for personal hygiene?

And if you bug out...what are you going to clean up with? Gonna carry some soap? Got extra underwear, or are you gonna go Commando?

3. What do you have for first aid---or advanced aid?

Carrying a box of bandaids is OK...but you need to be prepared to treat the more serious stuff. And not just gunshot wounds...get careless walking down an incline with stout bushes and you can find someone who falls can get an impalement injury, a fracture, or a brain injury. What then?

As to the original question...well, the person who believes that if it happens that they have time to complete a functioning firearm out of nothing--I wish you the best of luck. You're going to need it.

As for me...yes, I have guns, and not ONE was purchased or acquired with the idea of arming my neighbors. I hope they take their preparation seriously. It may sound a bit cold...but, think about it for a minute.

This....Well said.