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It is currently Fri Apr 19, 2024 3:21 am
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Denied firearm purchase from LGS
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Nitro_Guns
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Lynnwood Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 Posts: 2499
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WaJim wrote: . Its either become any reason to trip up the purchaser............... Or Every establishment is covering their ass three ways from Sunday.
My bet is on the second reason. It has nothing to do with the dealer....It is a new mandate on the NICS system. If the dealer is running an E-Check, the dealer MUST check a box on the NICS site that states that the info matches EXACTLY...If you don't check the box, it will not let you continue with the E-Check. As stated earlier, if the dealer calls in the NICS check, the first question they ask is if the info matches exactly. The changed, without notice, about a month or so ago. As I understand it, dealers may allow the customer to correct the first section of the 4473 prior to the NICS check. However, it is most likely up to the individual dealer. And yes, it is a pain in the ass....
_________________ aka Big_Daddy
Nitro Products FFL Dealer SOT Dealer
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:40 pm |
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Selador
Site Supporter
Location: Index Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 Posts: 12963
Real Name: Jeff
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Nitro_Guns wrote: WaJim wrote: . Its either become any reason to trip up the purchaser............... Or Every establishment is covering their ass three ways from Sunday.
My bet is on the second reason. It has nothing to do with the dealer....It is a new mandate on the NICS system. If the dealer is running an E-Check, the dealer MUST check a box on the NICS site that states that the info matches EXACTLY...If you don't check the box, it will not let you continue with the E-Check. As stated earlier, if the dealer calls in the NICS check, the first question they ask is if the info matches exactly. The changed, without notice, about a month or so ago. As I understand it, dealers may allow the customer to correct the first section of the 4473 prior to the NICS check. However, it is most likely up to the individual dealer. And yes, it is a pain in the ass.... So the customer puts Nicolas Ignacious ConSatre on the form, and the customer's DL says Nicolas I. ConSatre. I don't see the problem with saying the form and the DL are identical. Unless, of course one has become so ethically and mentally lazy as to be one who would debate what the meaning of "IS" is...
_________________ -Jeff
How can I help you, and/or make you smile, today?
You are entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to tell me what mine must be.
Do justice. Love mercy.
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ~ Richard P. Feynman
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:53 pm |
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Unicorn
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 Posts: 2604
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The federal form asks if the ID (to include supplemental documents) matches "exactly," what the person puts down. It also says that the name must be complete.
So yes, the federal government is saying that everyone in the country needs to have their ID or license updated, or to have a second form of ID that has everything.
Kind of like how they require you to have a Real ID Act compliant ID to fly or enter a military base.
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Last edited by Unicorn on Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:03 pm |
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Nitro_Guns
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Lynnwood Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 Posts: 2499
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Selador wrote: Nitro_Guns wrote: WaJim wrote: . Its either become any reason to trip up the purchaser............... Or Every establishment is covering their ass three ways from Sunday.
My bet is on the second reason. It has nothing to do with the dealer....It is a new mandate on the NICS system. If the dealer is running an E-Check, the dealer MUST check a box on the NICS site that states that the info matches EXACTLY...If you don't check the box, it will not let you continue with the E-Check. As stated earlier, if the dealer calls in the NICS check, the first question they ask is if the info matches exactly. The changed, without notice, about a month or so ago. As I understand it, dealers may allow the customer to correct the first section of the 4473 prior to the NICS check. However, it is most likely up to the individual dealer. And yes, it is a pain in the ass.... So the customer puts Nicolas Ignacious ConSatre on the form, and the customer's DL says Nicolas I. ConSatre. I don't see the problem with saying the form and the DL are identical. Unless, of course one has become so ethically and mentally lazy as to be one who would debate what the meaning of "IS" is... I agree with you. I was not justifying it just trying to explain this stupid shit...
_________________ aka Big_Daddy
Nitro Products FFL Dealer SOT Dealer
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:11 pm |
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Mr. Q
Site Supporter
Location: S. Everett Joined: Thu May 2, 2013 Posts: 3042
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:20 pm |
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Selador
Site Supporter
Location: Index Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 Posts: 12963
Real Name: Jeff
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Unicorn wrote: The federal form asks if the ID (to include supplemental documents) matches "exactly," what the person puts down. It also says that the name must be complete.
So yes, the federal government is saying that everyone in the country needs to have their ID or license updated, or to have a second form of ID that has everything.
Kind of like how they require you to have a Real ID Act compliant ID to fly or enter a military base. So that eventually we can be stopped on the street for no reason whatever, and be asked for our papers? Seems more like nazi germany every month. Slowly. Step by jack-booted step. Nitro_Guns wrote: Selador wrote: So the customer puts Nicolas Ignacious ConSatre on the form, and the customer's DL says Nicolas I. ConSatre.
I don't see the problem with saying the form and the DL are identical.
Unless, of course one has become so ethically and mentally lazy as to be one who would debate what the meaning of "IS" is... I agree with you. I was not justifying it just trying to explain this stupid shit... I thought so. I just didn't write enough to make that clear. I never know whether to write a novella so as many people as possible understand me... Or just write what I think and take my chances. LOL
_________________ -Jeff
How can I help you, and/or make you smile, today?
You are entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to tell me what mine must be.
Do justice. Love mercy.
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ~ Richard P. Feynman
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:31 pm |
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entropicmass
Site Supporter
Location: Bellingham Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 Posts: 93
Real Name: Cassady
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Gets even funnier when you're like me and have three middle names, only two of which fits on your DL and the third on your birth certificate is actually spelled wrong (will explain that one if anyone is curious). I've had the guy at the gun store lean over and go "Wait do you only have two middle names?" but the FBI doesn't seem to care at all. Some places even didn't parse the second middle name I had either!
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:53 pm |
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RocketScott
Site Supporter
Location: Kentucky Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 Posts: 11088
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Nitro_Guns wrote: WaJim wrote: . Its either become any reason to trip up the purchaser............... Or Every establishment is covering their ass three ways from Sunday.
My bet is on the second reason. It has nothing to do with the dealer....It is a new mandate on the NICS system. If the dealer is running an E-Check, the dealer MUST check a box on the NICS site that states that the info matches EXACTLY...If you don't check the box, it will not let you continue with the E-Check. As stated earlier, if the dealer calls in the NICS check, the first question they ask is if the info matches exactly. The changed, without notice, about a month or so ago. As I understand it, dealers may allow the customer to correct the first section of the 4473 prior to the NICS check. However, it is most likely up to the individual dealer. And yes, it is a pain in the ass.... Can you explain what is meant by having the IO on the instructions for the name? I read that a few times and not sure what it actually meant. How can they say that initials are OK but at the same time a buyer needs to provide their full name? Not being confrontational. I honestly want to know what they mean, or even if they know what they are saying In the OPs situation it seems like all they needed to do was have him fill out another form, only use his middle initial, and put IO after it
_________________ You may be right, I may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:08 pm |
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dreadi
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Tacoma, Washington Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 Posts: 8358
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Only if they come in Roof Korean costume.
_________________BLACK HAMMER ARMSBuy A Suppressor http://www.silencershop.com/blackhammerarmsType 7 Class 2 SOT NFA Dealer 1911 Pistolsmithing Firearm Refinishing GLOCK Certified Armorer CMMG Authorized Dealer NEMO Arms Authorized Dealer http://www.blackhammerarms.comhttp://www.facebook.com/blackhammerarmshttps://www.instagram.com/blackhammerarms/
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:10 pm |
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usrifle
Site Supporter
Location: RENTON Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 Posts: 20771
Real Name: John
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Roof Koreans are Bad Ass, they are welcome at my house anytime.
_________________ Mr. Q wrote: so basically, if you have to smoke some asshole, make sure they become fertilizer and then Bounce? got it.
Guntrader wrote: Huh, maybe I was an asshole.
NRA Member/RSO SAF 5 Year Donor GOA Member
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:17 pm |
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Mr. Q
Site Supporter
Location: S. Everett Joined: Thu May 2, 2013 Posts: 3042
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Damn, I’m only an offspring of a rooftop Korean :(
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:23 pm |
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RocketScott
Site Supporter
Location: Kentucky Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 Posts: 11088
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I think that's close enough
Now, if you turn out to only be 1024th rooftop Korean we might take issue...
_________________ You may be right, I may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:48 pm |
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Nitro_Guns
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Lynnwood Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 Posts: 2499
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RocketScott wrote: Nitro_Guns wrote: WaJim wrote: . Its either become any reason to trip up the purchaser............... Or Every establishment is covering their ass three ways from Sunday.
My bet is on the second reason. It has nothing to do with the dealer....It is a new mandate on the NICS system. If the dealer is running an E-Check, the dealer MUST check a box on the NICS site that states that the info matches EXACTLY...If you don't check the box, it will not let you continue with the E-Check. As stated earlier, if the dealer calls in the NICS check, the first question they ask is if the info matches exactly. The changed, without notice, about a month or so ago. As I understand it, dealers may allow the customer to correct the first section of the 4473 prior to the NICS check. However, it is most likely up to the individual dealer. And yes, it is a pain in the ass.... Can you explain what is meant by having the IO on the instructions for the name? I read that a few times and not sure what it actually meant. How can they say that initials are OK but at the same time a buyer needs to provide their full name? Not being confrontational. I honestly want to know what they mean, or even if they know what they are saying In the OPs situation it seems like all they needed to do was have him fill out another form, only use his middle initial, and put IO after it As I understand it, not required to use your "full" name. What they have said is that the information on the ID MUST EXACTLY MATCH the information provided on the 4473. Here is the exact wording from NICS: "Do the name, date of birth, and place of residence in Section A on the ATF Form 4473 exactly match the valid government-issued photo identification (to include supplemental) document(s) provided to you AND do questions 11b through 11i and 12b and 12c have a “No” response?" The IO caption, I would assume, is for people that ONLY have an initial as a middle name. Bottom line is.....Fill out the 4473 the way that your ID shows....
_________________ aka Big_Daddy
Nitro Products FFL Dealer SOT Dealer
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:49 pm |
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usrifle
Site Supporter
Location: RENTON Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 Posts: 20771
Real Name: John
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Mr. Q wrote: Damn, I’m only an offspring of a rooftop Korean :(
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Close enough, you are in.
_________________ Mr. Q wrote: so basically, if you have to smoke some asshole, make sure they become fertilizer and then Bounce? got it.
Guntrader wrote: Huh, maybe I was an asshole.
NRA Member/RSO SAF 5 Year Donor GOA Member
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:05 pm |
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Selador
Site Supporter
Location: Index Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 Posts: 12963
Real Name: Jeff
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Nitro_Guns wrote: RocketScott wrote: Nitro_Guns wrote: WaJim wrote: . Its either become any reason to trip up the purchaser............... Or Every establishment is covering their ass three ways from Sunday.
My bet is on the second reason. It has nothing to do with the dealer....It is a new mandate on the NICS system. If the dealer is running an E-Check, the dealer MUST check a box on the NICS site that states that the info matches EXACTLY...If you don't check the box, it will not let you continue with the E-Check. As stated earlier, if the dealer calls in the NICS check, the first question they ask is if the info matches exactly. The changed, without notice, about a month or so ago. As I understand it, dealers may allow the customer to correct the first section of the 4473 prior to the NICS check. However, it is most likely up to the individual dealer. And yes, it is a pain in the ass.... Can you explain what is meant by having the IO on the instructions for the name? I read that a few times and not sure what it actually meant. How can they say that initials are OK but at the same time a buyer needs to provide their full name? Not being confrontational. I honestly want to know what they mean, or even if they know what they are saying In the OPs situation it seems like all they needed to do was have him fill out another form, only use his middle initial, and put IO after it As I understand it, not required to use your "full" name. What they have said is that the information on the ID MUST EXACTLY MATCH the information provided on the 4473. Here is the exact wording from NICS: "Do the name, date of birth, and place of residence in Section A on the ATF Form 4473 exactly match the valid government-issued photo identification (to include supplemental) document(s) provided to you AND do questions 11b through 11i and 12b and 12c have a “No” response?" The IO caption, I would assume, is for people that ONLY have an initial as a middle name. Bottom line is.....Fill out the 4473 the way that your ID shows.... Thats the way I understood it. Unless the form itself demands that you fill in the full name. No middle initial allowed... Even then, my "full name" as it appears on my DL only has my middle initial. In fact, that is the way I have always filled it out. And I have never gotten even a delay.
_________________ -Jeff
How can I help you, and/or make you smile, today?
You are entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to tell me what mine must be.
Do justice. Love mercy.
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ~ Richard P. Feynman
Last edited by Selador on Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:17 pm |
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