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 Are you in construction? Question 
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jukk0u wrote:
Illustrates the value of a written and initialed "Change Order" which authorizes up-charges or design changes.

As for clean up: usually it is customary that a contractor be given ample opportunity to correct deficiencies before a customer undertakes the effort and expense of remediation. Do you feel that you gave him that opportunity? If so, then:

Yes, he's a dirtbag for not getting there the next day, as promised, to clean up (or barring that, within a reasonable amount of time thereafter). Especially since you did the favor of paying in full before he completed all work AND clean up.

That $116 could easily be offset by the clean up work you had to do.




Yes I gave him several days and he was MIA

Well dealt with him today and I came out of retirement and put on my old Managers Hat. I kept calm and went over point by point wth him. He started by saying the first load he hauled off cost him $200 to dispose of because it was 3 tons (this included a fencing project he had done for me that he was over budget on also) I said 3 tons I would like to see that receipt (crickets he said nothing and looked like a deer who had been spotlighted) I then said that should have been covered in your quote or your quote should have stated that disposal fees were extra. The whole conversation was excuses and me shooting them down with calm reason. He was pretty wordless when I told him that he and his crew did a great job on both projects the failing was in him being way off on the first quote and $550 off on the second and after the second it looks like it is a pattern for him and he could better increase comunication. I said a quick text saying he is running behind and will finish cleanup on XXX day would have taken care of that problem instead of cutting off all comunication but I did let him know I was happy with the overall end projects just not the added cost and lack of communication. Hopefully since he is a younger guy he will figure it out.

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WaGuns Clue.

It was a Night Op in the library with an AK Pistol by TW...


Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:27 am
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I am an electrical contractor, so a little different, but if a job has the potential for “unforeseen issues “, I give a bid with stipulations, and a cost not to exceed price. Even with a the stipulations, I have found that communication and good record keeping is the key. Even if a customer doesn’t understand the “nuts and bolts” of why the job may go above the base bid price, I still try to accurately explain to them why. We don’t do a whole ton of residential remodel work, but we always try to be as accurate and strait forward as possible. I also don’t ever collect final payment until my customer has done a post job walk and we have gone over all of the work done. This includes the clean up. When they are happy, and sign off on the job, then I get final payment.
Again, a little different than general contracting, but some food for thought.


Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:43 pm
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I think if he had told me as we went along it was going over the etimate instead of after the job was done I could have handled it instead of the Shock at the end. I just finished talking to him and he offered me $450 of my money back, to be fare and honest I told him if the cost warrented it I did not need my money back so I told him if he sent me the copy of all receipts and it was as he stated he could keep the money if not then I would like the money back. He agreed so I figured this is a fair way of handling it.

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WaGuns Clue.

It was a Night Op in the library with an AK Pistol by TW...


Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:37 am
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Likely he is new to bidding his jobs correctly. Sounds like you got a great deal to me. I'd let him keep the remaining $450. If the job is nicely done, then he was worth it imo.
Btw, I bid jobs at $105/ man hour. Mostly commercial work though. Money drops really fast in this business.

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Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:29 pm
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I mostly do new construction so things are more straight forward. I expect to show up to a finished foundation that's been back filled and when I leave there's a house. Easy as that. Builders are responsible for materials (although if I start getting shorted on things I'll take that over and charge for it)

He does sound like he's new to bidding and the materials were the hangup. That's why I just give estimates for materials (if I do a job where I'll be supplying materials). If someone wants a fixed price I'll make it high just so I know I'm covered. I tell people that too, most go ahead with the estimate route and trust I'll take care of them. I also make copies of all the receipts to show where the money went. I'm not opposed to them paying for materials directly either, if it doesn't go across my books then I don't mark it up

Honestly I'm not a big fan of the way contracting works. Builders that work on a percentage of the project cost have zero incentive to save the customer money. Fixed pricing is going to be high to cover all contingencies or will be low to get the bid (then slapped together as fast as possible to yield a profit), straight time and materials doesn't encourage quick work. Dunno what the answer is

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Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:08 pm
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I charge more per foot for 20' cedar than I do for 12' cedar. 20' are wasteful to mill and a PITA.

I provide a quality product and Im not the cheapest guy around. I have MANY happy customers tho.

Underpromise and overdeliver. That's the key.

In the past where I knew I was gonna eat shit on a job or a estimate, I would explain to the customer my situation and ask them what they think. 90 percent of the time, they would work with me and things would come out good. I learned FAST. Those are GOOD customers that want a good job for a fair price.

Then there's the 10 percenter that says, "your fuckup, YOU EAT IT". Thats not the customer I want anymore, so I bid things high now. Im still very fair and competitive tho.

I can't/won't sacrifice quality for bargain pricing.


Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:33 pm
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OhShoot! wrote:
Likely he is new to bidding his jobs correctly. Sounds like you got a great deal to me. I'd let him keep the remaining $450. If the job is nicely done, then he was worth it imo.
Btw, I bid jobs at $105/ man hour. Mostly commercial work though. Money drops really fast in this business.


Old Growth wrote:

In the past where I knew I was gonna eat shit on a job or a estimate, I would explain to the customer my situation and ask them what they think. 90 percent of the time, they would work with me and things would come out good. I learned FAST. Those are GOOD customers that want a good job for a fair price.


.


Hey it was $550 not $450 do you know how much ammo and mags that could buy OhShoot???

We actually got to talk yesterday and he offered me a refund of the $450 he went over budget (I think he took the same math course as OhShoot.) I told him no I was very happy with the job and the fence he did and the quality of his work was top notch. and I loved the deck. I explained that twice in less than 2 weeks writing a check over estimate and on the second job I got no warning just a shocking DEMAND for extra money at the end of the job was just shocking. At least on the first job he kept me informed when we got to the point he realized he was going over. I also pointed out that he said he was going to use lag bolts in the braces and he did not and the braces he put in did not resemble the braces he described. He said he didn`t remember that so I politely pointed out it might be an organizational and memory thing and maybe notes might help I also brought up the suggestion that foot notes be put on his billings that dump fees where not included because most would think that he stated haul of was included one would assume unless state that dump fees were included. In the end he said since he is a new bussiness he thanked me for the input and not taking back the over budget and I got all the work I needed done now just to stain my deck.

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kf7mjf wrote:
WaGuns Clue.

It was a Night Op in the library with an AK Pistol by TW...


Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:23 am
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lionhrt wrote:
I just finished talking to him and he offered me $450 of my money back,

I quoted this cost. The cost that you quoted. Didn't hafta do no math :ROFLMAO:
:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

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Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:51 am
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Where were the lag bolts omitted? On the deck ledger?

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Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:39 am
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jukk0u wrote:
Where were the lag bolts omitted? On the deck ledger?


Over head beams where they butt together. the original owner of this place used 2x6`s and since the deck is 16ftx20ft they butted 2-2x6`s together and used a 3rd piece to over lap the seam and nail them together

OhShoot! wrote:
lionhrt wrote:
I just finished talking to him and he offered me $450 of my money back,

I quoted this cost. The cost that you quoted. Didn't hafta do no math :ROFLMAO:
:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:


yeah I was going by what the actual over was not his offer

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kf7mjf wrote:
WaGuns Clue.

It was a Night Op in the library with an AK Pistol by TW...


Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:03 am
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So now your overhead beams (holding a roof?) look something like this?

Image

or

Image

Did he use Tico nails (nails specifically for such brackets)?

I was at a job recently and found the joist hanger brackets and ledger held together with drywall screws!

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"The said constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." ~ Samuel Adams

"I love Girl Scout Crack!" ~ usrifle

“A return to First Principles in a Republic is sometimes caused by simple virtues of a single man. His good example has such an influence that the good men strive to imitate him, and the wicked are ashamed to lead a life so contrary to his example. Before all else, be armed!” ~ Niccolo Machiavelli


Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:14 am
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I laugh.

Houses built over 100 years ago with REAL wood lumber and normal nails are still standing. Most of them didn't even have foundations!

Houses built with vapor barrier, tin brackets, specialty nails, etc are falling apart and molding after 30 years.

We have really progressed!


Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:25 am
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jukk0u wrote:
So now your overhead beams (holding a roof?) look something like this?

Image

or

Image

Did he use Tico nails (nails specifically for such brackets)?

I was at a job recently and found the joist hanger brackets and ledger held together with drywall screws!


Nope he just put a flat metal bracket where the 2 boards meet and nailed them together. I did not see the type of nail.

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kf7mjf wrote:
WaGuns Clue.

It was a Night Op in the library with an AK Pistol by TW...


Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:41 am
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Old Growth wrote:
I laugh.

Houses built over 100 years ago with REAL wood lumber and normal nails are still standing. Most of them didn't even have foundations!

Houses built with vapor barrier, tin brackets, specialty nails, etc are falling apart and molding after 30 years.

We have really progressed!

I've seen houses mold inside the wall cavity in less than 10 years with an improperly designed vapor barrier. It's all about correct wall science. I sell high tech air barriers for a living. Prosoco, Soprema, etc...

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Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:49 am
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jukk0u wrote:
So now your overhead beams (holding a roof?) look something like this?

Image

or

Image

Did he use Tico nails (nails specifically for such brackets)?

I was at a job recently and found the joist hanger brackets and ledger held together with drywall screws!

Drywall screws are legit

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Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:46 pm
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