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 Traffic Stops while Armed. 
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Powderman wrote:
If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to be afraid of. If you have nothing to hide....


First, i get the whole if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck... line of reasoning and I dont necessarily disagree with it. Second, I absolutely abhor the above type of thinking, it smacks of a police state, like George Orwells 1984. Thirdly, If the person in question has done nothing wrong then why are they being stopped by a police officer in the first place? Seems to almost obviate the whole line of reasoning. And if you want to say something like, he was just pulled over for a tail light being out, well technically according to the law that is "wrong" right? Operating a vehicle on a public roadway without all the proper safety signals/lights is after all against the law. Admittedly a minor traffic infraction but regardless a ticket-able one on account of it being against the law.

_________________
Spoiler: show
"Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm -- but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves." – T.S. Eliot

"The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." - St. George Tucker

A careful definition of words would destroy half the agenda of the political left and scrutinizing evidence would destroy the other half. - Thomas Sowell

"To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow...

For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding." - Jeff Snyder

Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the monarch of all he surveys. It realizes the ancient dream of the Jovian thunderbolt, and as such it is the embodiment of personal power. For this reason it exercises a curious influence over the minds of most men, and in its best examples it constitutes an object of affection unmatched by any other inanimate object.

Jeff Cooper
1997 The Art of the Rifle Page 1.

Spoiler: show
SUGGEST CASE BE SUBMITTED ON APPELLANT'S BRIEF. UNABLE TO OBTAIN ANY MONEY FROM CLIENTS TO BE PRESENT & ARGUE BRIEF.

The defense attorney's telegram to the clerk of the Supreme Court, March 29, 1939, in re United States. v. Miller.

You don't need to go to Law School to understand the constitutional implications of that.

“You can’t cut the throat of every cocksucker whose character it would improve.”
Spoiler: show
MadPick wrote:
Bob Ferguson is a total piece of shit. Of this, I am convinced.

cityslicker wrote:
I don't want to be told that I can't remove the tree by some tree-hugging pole smoker from the eat-a-dick foundation/Olympia/King County.

WARNING: I DEBATE IGNORAMUSES FOR MY OWN ENTERTAINMENT


Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:26 pm
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Powderman wrote:
Quote:
The idea is that you expose yourself less to an officer who might want to bust you for other things. For example, if you roll down your window they could claim they smelled alcohol when you haven’t been drinking or something then make you have a harder day.


(Insert sounds here of a groan, a sigh, and a palm hitting a forehead...)

Well....all I can say is this....

1. So, you don't do anything more than crack a window. That's OK. Do you REALLY think that's going to keep any smell inside a car?
2. If someone is drinking, has been drinking, or driving impaired, there are a LOT of other visible signs that this is the case.
3. Let's recap...I observe a problem, and I turn on the overheads. I walk up to the car, and you have your window cracked, won't roll it down any further, and you're being evasive with your answers. Your communication with me is almost non-existent.

So, what do you think will come next?

If I just pulled you over for a minor violation, I will be quite frank...your behavior is telling me that you want me to go away. A reasonable person will not act like that. It seems like you have something to hide. Yes, I'm going to dig. Yes, I'm going to ask questions. Yes, I am going to look around, as much as possible through your windows.

In short, the possibility of getting a "Please drive safely and have a better day" is getting smaller and smaller by the minute.

Read Terry v. Ohio, and see how the officer in that case developed what is now known as reasonable suspicion. Pay close attention to how Terry acted after he was contacted.

Does it sound familiar?

So, now, we're well into the traffic stop. What could have been a 5 minute encounter at best is now stretching on. I've called for another officer and possibly a supervisor.

Do you see where this is going? At best, you're going to be stuck sitting there for quite a while while we determine that you're just being a peckerhead.

At worse, we get to the point where I can articulate reasonable suspicion. Then...guess what comes next?

"Sir (or ma'am), please step out of the vehicle, and keep your hands where I can see them."

No, this is not a threat. Nor is it a promise. Just a statement of fact.

To date (and I'm not saying it will happen or won't in the future) I have NOT written ONE CPL holder. I haven't had to. I've issued buttloads of warnings, and have had some good conversation.

If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to be afraid of. If you have nothing to hide, just be a normal person, OK? Don't make it harder than it should be...ESPECIALLY if you're packing.

Agreed.

Be as courteous and respectful as you know how to be.

Looks like good place to quote myself from this very thread...
Selador wrote:
I have been stopped three times, while armed. Never got a ticket on any of the stops.

As I said in another thread, if I am stopped...

I have my wallet in my shirt pocket.
I have my window down.
Engine is turned off, and I am pulled as far over as I can safely get.
I have my hands on the steering wheel. Until told otherwise. Then they go back anyway.

I am courteous. I am respectful. and I am honest.

But I offer no information that I am not asked for. I do not tell them I have a CPL, or that I am armed.

Two of those stops, nothing was ever mentioned about the gun.

One of those stops was on I5 south of Olympia. The officer took my info, and went to his car. When he came back he said he noticed I have a CPL, and asked if I was armed. I told him I was, and told him where it was located. He said, just don't reach for it, and we finished our little talk. He gave me my papers back, and let me go...


Be courteous. Show respect even if the officer is the most disrespectful person you have ever met. And you will usually at least eventually, receive the same in return. Sometimes you just draw the worst officer available. If so, show respect anyway, and end up driving away, lucky that it didn't turn into something worse than a ticket.

Be confrontational. Demand your "rights". Be disrespectful... And don't be surprised if you get a bigger dose of the same, in return.

It's common sense. They are the officer of the law. If you turn it into a confrontation, everything is in their favor. You have to be really stupid to turn it into a confrontation.


Funny thing is, the officer that stopped me south of Olympia, was acting like a real butt, at first. I was calm, courteous and respectful. And before he even went back to his car the first time, he was already calming down.


jdhbulseye wrote:
Powderman wrote:
If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to be afraid of. If you have nothing to hide....


First, i get the whole if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck... line of reasoning and I dont necessarily disagree with it. Second, I absolutely abhor the above type of thinking, it smacks of a police state, like George Orwells 1984. Thirdly, If the person in question has done nothing wrong then why are they being stopped by a police officer in the first place? Seems to almost obviate the whole line of reasoning. And if you want to say something like, he was just pulled over for a tail light being out, well technically according to the law that is "wrong" right? Operating a vehicle on a public roadway without all the proper safety signals/lights is after all against the law. Admittedly a minor traffic infraction but regardless a ticket-able one on account of it being against the law.

I'll agree with your opening statement.

However, I think you are stretching it too far. You are picking at nits.

You aren't being stopped, unless something is wrong. This is true. But you are using the letter of the statement to make a point that only leads to confrontation.

The spirit of the statement is, if you haven't murdered someone, or robbed a bank, or committed, (or are committing), some other heinous crime don't act like you have/are. Because the person you are dealing with has as one of their primary duties, the responsibility to be suspicious of anyone who acts that way.

Put the window down only a crack, act all defensive, and apprehensive, and you'd peg MY suspicion meter, as well.

_________________
-Jeff

Image

How can I help you, and/or make you smile, today?

The problem with being on social media, is that you know too many people that you don't know.

Joy is not a feeling. It is a strength. Some people are stupid, that's all there is to it. (And sometimes that stupid person is me/you.) Sometimes you just have to let stupid people be stupid. Don't let stupid steal your joy.

Holding onto unforgiveness and resentment is like drinking poison and expecting that other person to die. Anger will eat you up.


Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:29 pm
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Selador wrote:
Powderman wrote:
Quote:
The idea is that you expose yourself less to an officer who might want to bust you for other things. For example, if you roll down your window they could claim they smelled alcohol when you haven’t been drinking or something then make you have a harder day.


(Insert sounds here of a groan, a sigh, and a palm hitting a forehead...)

Well....all I can say is this....

1. So, you don't do anything more than crack a window. That's OK. Do you REALLY think that's going to keep any smell inside a car?
2. If someone is drinking, has been drinking, or driving impaired, there are a LOT of other visible signs that this is the case.
3. Let's recap...I observe a problem, and I turn on the overheads. I walk up to the car, and you have your window cracked, won't roll it down any further, and you're being evasive with your answers. Your communication with me is almost non-existent.

So, what do you think will come next?

If I just pulled you over for a minor violation, I will be quite frank...your behavior is telling me that you want me to go away. A reasonable person will not act like that. It seems like you have something to hide. Yes, I'm going to dig. Yes, I'm going to ask questions. Yes, I am going to look around, as much as possible through your windows.

In short, the possibility of getting a "Please drive safely and have a better day" is getting smaller and smaller by the minute.

Read Terry v. Ohio, and see how the officer in that case developed what is now known as reasonable suspicion. Pay close attention to how Terry acted after he was contacted.

Does it sound familiar?

So, now, we're well into the traffic stop. What could have been a 5 minute encounter at best is now stretching on. I've called for another officer and possibly a supervisor.

Do you see where this is going? At best, you're going to be stuck sitting there for quite a while while we determine that you're just being a peckerhead.

At worse, we get to the point where I can articulate reasonable suspicion. Then...guess what comes next?

"Sir (or ma'am), please step out of the vehicle, and keep your hands where I can see them."

No, this is not a threat. Nor is it a promise. Just a statement of fact.

To date (and I'm not saying it will happen or won't in the future) I have NOT written ONE CPL holder. I haven't had to. I've issued buttloads of warnings, and have had some good conversation.

If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to be afraid of. If you have nothing to hide, just be a normal person, OK? Don't make it harder than it should be...ESPECIALLY if you're packing.

Agreed.

Be as courteous and respectful as you know how to be.

Looks like good place to quote myself from this very thread...
Selador wrote:
I have been stopped three times, while armed. Never got a ticket on any of the stops.

As I said in another thread, if I am stopped...

I have my wallet in my shirt pocket.
I have my window down.
Engine is turned off, and I am pulled as far over as I can safely get.
I have my hands on the steering wheel. Until told otherwise. Then they go back anyway.

I am courteous. I am respectful. and I am honest.

But I offer no information that I am not asked for. I do not tell them I have a CPL, or that I am armed.

Two of those stops, nothing was ever mentioned about the gun.

One of those stops was on I5 south of Olympia. The officer took my info, and went to his car. When he came back he said he noticed I have a CPL, and asked if I was armed. I told him I was, and told him where it was located. He said, just don't reach for it, and we finished our little talk. He gave me my papers back, and let me go...


Be courteous. Show respect even if the officer is the most disrespectful person you have ever met. And you will usually at least eventually, receive the same in return. Sometimes you just draw the worst officer available. If so, show respect anyway, and end up driving away, lucky that it didn't turn into something worse than a ticket.

Be confrontational. Demand your "rights". Be disrespectful... And don't be surprised if you get a bigger dose of the same, in return.

It's common sense. They are the officer of the law. If you turn it into a confrontation, everything is in their favor. You have to be really stupid to turn it into a confrontation.


Funny thing is, the officer that stopped me south of Olympia, was acting like a real butt, at first. I was calm, courteous and respectful. And before he even went back to his car the first time, he was already calming down.


jdhbulseye wrote:
Powderman wrote:
If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to be afraid of. If you have nothing to hide....


First, i get the whole if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck... line of reasoning and I dont necessarily disagree with it. Second, I absolutely abhor the above type of thinking, it smacks of a police state, like George Orwells 1984. Thirdly, If the person in question has done nothing wrong then why are they being stopped by a police officer in the first place? Seems to almost obviate the whole line of reasoning. And if you want to say something like, he was just pulled over for a tail light being out, well technically according to the law that is "wrong" right? Operating a vehicle on a public roadway without all the proper safety signals/lights is after all against the law. Admittedly a minor traffic infraction but regardless a ticket-able one on account of it being against the law.

I'll agree with your opening statement.

However, I think you are stretching it too far. You are picking at nits.

You aren't being stopped, unless something is wrong. This is true. But you are using the letter of the statement to make a point that only leads to confrontation.

The spirit of the statement is, if you haven't murdered someone, or robbed a bank, or committed, (or are committing), some other heinous crime don't act like you have/are. Because the person you are dealing with has as one of their primary duties, the responsibility to be suspicious of anyone who acts that way.

Put the window down only a crack, act all defensive, and apprehensive, and you'd peg MY suspicion meter, as well.


I can see that. But not picking at nits when it comes to the power of the state leads to creeping encroachment in my opinion. And no this is not an indictment of cops, but im sure someone will come along and read it as such.

For the record I have always rolled the window all the way down and I have always been as respectful as possible and followed the officers instructions whenever I have been pulled over.

_________________
Spoiler: show
"Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm -- but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves." – T.S. Eliot

"The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." - St. George Tucker

A careful definition of words would destroy half the agenda of the political left and scrutinizing evidence would destroy the other half. - Thomas Sowell

"To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow...

For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding." - Jeff Snyder

Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the monarch of all he surveys. It realizes the ancient dream of the Jovian thunderbolt, and as such it is the embodiment of personal power. For this reason it exercises a curious influence over the minds of most men, and in its best examples it constitutes an object of affection unmatched by any other inanimate object.

Jeff Cooper
1997 The Art of the Rifle Page 1.

Spoiler: show
SUGGEST CASE BE SUBMITTED ON APPELLANT'S BRIEF. UNABLE TO OBTAIN ANY MONEY FROM CLIENTS TO BE PRESENT & ARGUE BRIEF.

The defense attorney's telegram to the clerk of the Supreme Court, March 29, 1939, in re United States. v. Miller.

You don't need to go to Law School to understand the constitutional implications of that.

“You can’t cut the throat of every cocksucker whose character it would improve.”
Spoiler: show
MadPick wrote:
Bob Ferguson is a total piece of shit. Of this, I am convinced.

cityslicker wrote:
I don't want to be told that I can't remove the tree by some tree-hugging pole smoker from the eat-a-dick foundation/Olympia/King County.

WARNING: I DEBATE IGNORAMUSES FOR MY OWN ENTERTAINMENT


Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:51 pm
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jdhbulseye wrote:
I can see that. But not picking at nits when it comes to the power of the state leads to creeping encroachment in my opinion. And no this is not an indictment of cops, but im sure someone will come along and read it as such.

For the record I have always rolled the window all the way down and I have always been as respectful as possible and followed the officers instructions whenever I have been pulled over.

I actually share that opinion. In my lifetime, and even within the years that I was a cop myself, we have seen that encroachment.

And I have and had, no doubt that your conduct when stopped is exactly as you state. You don't strike me as a stupid person, or petty.

Power, corrupts.

From the smallest, to the absolute. And everything in between.

In my opinion, every cop out there should be as subject to any law that he enforces, as any person he enforces that law against. With the power they are given, they should be required to meet a HIGHER standard than the rest of us. Not a lower one.

And every cop that uses the power they have been given, in any way other than to serve and protect, should be fired. Without question, and without severance pay, or continued benefits, etc.

At the same time, The job IS a dangerous one. And they DO deserve respect, whether you actually respect them or not. The uniform and what is behind it deserves respectful conduct.

Last... Like it or not, even those cops who personally are far from deserving of respect, still wear that uniform, and still can mess your life up in an instant. How stupid is it to poke that dog with a stick?

_________________
-Jeff

Image

How can I help you, and/or make you smile, today?

The problem with being on social media, is that you know too many people that you don't know.

Joy is not a feeling. It is a strength. Some people are stupid, that's all there is to it. (And sometimes that stupid person is me/you.) Sometimes you just have to let stupid people be stupid. Don't let stupid steal your joy.

Holding onto unforgiveness and resentment is like drinking poison and expecting that other person to die. Anger will eat you up.


Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:21 pm
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Selador wrote:
jdhbulseye wrote:
I can see that. But not picking at nits when it comes to the power of the state leads to creeping encroachment in my opinion. And no this is not an indictment of cops, but im sure someone will come along and read it as such.

For the record I have always rolled the window all the way down and I have always been as respectful as possible and followed the officers instructions whenever I have been pulled over.

I actually share that opinion. In my lifetime, and even within the years that I was a cop myself, we have seen that encroachment.

And I have and had, no doubt that your conduct when stopped is exactly as you state. You don't strike me as a stupid person, or petty.

Power, corrupts.

From the smallest, to the absolute. And everything in between.

In my opinion, every cop out there should be as subject to any law that he enforces, as any person he enforces that law against. With the power they are given, they should be required to meet a HIGHER standard than the rest of us. Not a lower one.

And every cop that uses the power they have been given, in any way other than to serve and protect, should be fired. Without question, and without severance pay, or continued benefits, etc.

At the same time, The job IS a dangerous one. And they DO deserve respect, whether you actually respect them or not. The uniform and what is behind it deserves respectful conduct.

Last... Like it or not, even those cops who personally are far from deserving of respect, still wear that uniform, and still can mess your life up in an instant. How stupid is it to poke that dog with a stick?


We are in 100% agreement. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Should be held to a higher standard and should be shown respect. Unfortunately we see both things are often not the case in our current society.

_________________
Spoiler: show
"Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm -- but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves." – T.S. Eliot

"The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." - St. George Tucker

A careful definition of words would destroy half the agenda of the political left and scrutinizing evidence would destroy the other half. - Thomas Sowell

"To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow...

For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding." - Jeff Snyder

Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the monarch of all he surveys. It realizes the ancient dream of the Jovian thunderbolt, and as such it is the embodiment of personal power. For this reason it exercises a curious influence over the minds of most men, and in its best examples it constitutes an object of affection unmatched by any other inanimate object.

Jeff Cooper
1997 The Art of the Rifle Page 1.

Spoiler: show
SUGGEST CASE BE SUBMITTED ON APPELLANT'S BRIEF. UNABLE TO OBTAIN ANY MONEY FROM CLIENTS TO BE PRESENT & ARGUE BRIEF.

The defense attorney's telegram to the clerk of the Supreme Court, March 29, 1939, in re United States. v. Miller.

You don't need to go to Law School to understand the constitutional implications of that.

“You can’t cut the throat of every cocksucker whose character it would improve.”
Spoiler: show
MadPick wrote:
Bob Ferguson is a total piece of shit. Of this, I am convinced.

cityslicker wrote:
I don't want to be told that I can't remove the tree by some tree-hugging pole smoker from the eat-a-dick foundation/Olympia/King County.

WARNING: I DEBATE IGNORAMUSES FOR MY OWN ENTERTAINMENT


Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:29 pm
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respect is uncommon these days.
cops must be held to a higher standard as the enforcers of the laws. same as judges and lawyers.
but now i'm off in fantasy land.

_________________
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Benjamin Franklin once said that beer is proof that God loves us.
I'm of the opinion that Redheads are proof that, contrary to popular belief, Satan also loves us.


Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:15 am
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In my opinion, every cop out there should be as subject to any law that he enforces, as any person he enforces that law against. With the power they are given, they should be required to meet a HIGHER standard than the rest of us. Not a lower one.


Who said that we are NOT held to a higher standard? And who really believes that we are not subject to the law, same as everyone else?

For heaven's sake, people! This is starting to get a bit ridiculous. I have said it one hundred times before, and I'll say it a THOUSAND times more--No one, and I mean NO ONE despises dirty cops more than good cops. And I really have to wonder about the inner workings of some people who make blanket statements.

I hear long and loud about bad and corrupt cops. "Hang them all!" "Put them in jail!!!"

Yet an even MORE broken State government is given the power to tax the CRAP out of people, WITHOUT the tax being put to the vote.

The same people (in some cases) who wail about the opoid epidemic, about massive increases in the uses of heroin and meth are some of the SAME people who turn a blind eye and go "Ho-hum" when the State actually considers OPENING UP SAFE INJECTION SITES for the use of these lethal poisons.

If I see someone in a quiet residential neighborhood who is out of place and I stop while on duty to try to talk to this person--feel them out, try to find out if they have a good reason for being there (and at the same time let them know that yes, we ARE on duty and we ARE watching), well--the train flies off the tracks! Look at that abusive, power mad, tyrannical cop! Why, he (or she) is power mad--they're trampling on my constitutional rights! Stopping people without cause!!! The HORROR!

Now, if there is a sudden rash of residential burglaries in that area, or armed robberies, or other crimes against persons or property: "Those lazy, good for nothing cops! Look at them at the donut shop! They just drive around and don't do anything all day! Look at them! HEY! I PAY YOUR SALARY!!!!

Come on, folks. Just because I wear a badge does NOT mean that I am a power-hungry maniac. It does NOT mean that I drool at the possibilities of putting handcuffs on people, depriving people of their property, taking your privately owned firearms or ANYTHING ELSE.

I simply wish that those who think this way would stop and think about it. Just for a minute.

This is getting really old, really fast.

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Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:22 pm
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Powderman wrote:
Quote:
In my opinion, every cop out there should be as subject to any law that he enforces, as any person he enforces that law against. With the power they are given, they should be required to meet a HIGHER standard than the rest of us. Not a lower one.


Who said that we are NOT held to a higher standard? And who really believes that we are not subject to the law, same as everyone else?

For heaven's sake, people! This is starting to get a bit ridiculous. I have said it one hundred times before, and I'll say it a THOUSAND times more--No one, and I mean NO ONE despises dirty cops more than good cops. And I really have to wonder about the inner workings of some people who make blanket statements.

I hear long and loud about bad and corrupt cops. "Hang them all!" "Put them in jail!!!"

Yet an even MORE broken State government is given the power to tax the CRAP out of people, WITHOUT the tax being put to the vote.

The same people (in some cases) who wail about the opoid epidemic, about massive increases in the uses of heroin and meth are some of the SAME people who turn a blind eye and go "Ho-hum" when the State actually considers OPENING UP SAFE INJECTION SITES for the use of these lethal poisons.

If I see someone in a quiet residential neighborhood who is out of place and I stop while on duty to try to talk to this person--feel them out, try to find out if they have a good reason for being there (and at the same time let them know that yes, we ARE on duty and we ARE watching), well--the train flies off the tracks! Look at that abusive, power mad, tyrannical cop! Why, he (or she) is power mad--they're trampling on my constitutional rights! Stopping people without cause!!! The HORROR!

Now, if there is a sudden rash of residential burglaries in that area, or armed robberies, or other crimes against persons or property: "Those lazy, good for nothing cops! Look at them at the donut shop! They just drive around and don't do anything all day! Look at them! HEY! I PAY YOUR SALARY!!!!

Come on, folks. Just because I wear a badge does NOT mean that I am a power-hungry maniac. It does NOT mean that I drool at the possibilities of putting handcuffs on people, depriving people of their property, taking your privately owned firearms or ANYTHING ELSE.

I simply wish that those who think this way would stop and think about it. Just for a minute.

This is getting really old, really fast.

Would you all please listen to this man? You want to make blanket statements about cops? How about you actually listen to one?

Ever had some jackass spout off about your job, and all the hacks that do your job, and how they know XYZ about your job, and how they could do it better than you? Pain in the ass right? Where the fuck do those idiots get off thinking they know everything about your job! Right? How do you think Powderman feels when you all spout off about "cops this, and cops that" like you are experts on his job?

Gimme a fucking break. You want to listen to a source? Or you just want to rant on with your opinions? Personally I enjoy hearing an actual police officer give me his opinion on how he approaches the subject. Straight from the source.

Does he represent every officer you'll encounter? Of course not. But it's a hell of a lot better than the sewing circle gossip party opinion circle jerk of a bunch of conspiracy theorist junkies that think they know everything about police work. How about we listen to the police on subjects relating to....the police??? Hmmm???

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Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:53 pm
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I drive collector vehicles. I only have one vehicle that is not. I also have a federal seat belt exemption due to a disabilty related issue so when I am in my non CVs I only wear a lap belt. You want some head scratching reading read the seatbelt regs for this state. One section will call it a seat belt or lap belt and other will call it shoulder harness and then refer to the previous section that uses other nomenclature. When an officer runs a CV plate or restored plate the plate number comes back in another spot on his screen or even not at all. The last time I got pulled over this young officer told me that I should change something that was the state's doing. I just do not see as many officers that can think let alone read code. And I do not care that in some officers short life they have never seen such brand vehicle on the road......that in its self is is not an offence.


Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:14 am
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Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:31 am
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sinus211 wrote:
Powderman wrote:
Quote:
In my opinion, every cop out there should be as subject to any law that he enforces, as any person he enforces that law against. With the power they are given, they should be required to meet a HIGHER standard than the rest of us. Not a lower one.


Who said that we are NOT held to a higher standard? And who really believes that we are not subject to the law, same as everyone else?

For heaven's sake, people! This is starting to get a bit ridiculous. I have said it one hundred times before, and I'll say it a THOUSAND times more--No one, and I mean NO ONE despises dirty cops more than good cops. And I really have to wonder about the inner workings of some people who make blanket statements.

I hear long and loud about bad and corrupt cops. "Hang them all!" "Put them in jail!!!"

Yet an even MORE broken State government is given the power to tax the CRAP out of people, WITHOUT the tax being put to the vote.

The same people (in some cases) who wail about the opoid epidemic, about massive increases in the uses of heroin and meth are some of the SAME people who turn a blind eye and go "Ho-hum" when the State actually considers OPENING UP SAFE INJECTION SITES for the use of these lethal poisons.

If I see someone in a quiet residential neighborhood who is out of place and I stop while on duty to try to talk to this person--feel them out, try to find out if they have a good reason for being there (and at the same time let them know that yes, we ARE on duty and we ARE watching), well--the train flies off the tracks! Look at that abusive, power mad, tyrannical cop! Why, he (or she) is power mad--they're trampling on my constitutional rights! Stopping people without cause!!! The HORROR!

Now, if there is a sudden rash of residential burglaries in that area, or armed robberies, or other crimes against persons or property: "Those lazy, good for nothing cops! Look at them at the donut shop! They just drive around and don't do anything all day! Look at them! HEY! I PAY YOUR SALARY!!!!

Come on, folks. Just because I wear a badge does NOT mean that I am a power-hungry maniac. It does NOT mean that I drool at the possibilities of putting handcuffs on people, depriving people of their property, taking your privately owned firearms or ANYTHING ELSE.

I simply wish that those who think this way would stop and think about it. Just for a minute.

This is getting really old, really fast.

Would you all please listen to this man? You want to make blanket statements about cops? How about you actually listen to one?

Ever had some jackass spout off about your job, and all the hacks that do your job, and how they know XYZ about your job, and how they could do it better than you? Pain in the ass right? Where the fuck do those idiots get off thinking they know everything about your job! Right? How do you think Powderman feels when you all spout off about "cops this, and cops that" like you are experts on his job?

Gimme a fucking break. You want to listen to a source? Or you just want to rant on with your opinions? Personally I enjoy hearing an actual police officer give me his opinion on how he approaches the subject. Straight from the source.

Does he represent every officer you'll encounter? Of course not. But it's a hell of a lot better than the sewing circle gossip party opinion circle jerk of a bunch of conspiracy theorist junkies that think they know everything about police work. How about we listen to the police on subjects relating to....the police??? Hmmm???


For me at least this was the crux of the whole thing. Are most good honest people? Yes. Of course there are some who aren't. Of course those who are abhor those who aren't. That said there is also a reason for the cliche about the "blue wall of silence"; anyone who says it doesn't exist at least to some degree is full of shit. I cant speak for everyone obviously but of course i'm not an expert on his job. That said if one doesn't want public scrutiny (at times retarded levels of scrutiny by some) then they probably shouldn't take a public servants job.

Safe injection of lethal poisons seems like an oxymoron.

The power of the state to tax with or without a vote is a non sequitur with regard to whether cops are or are not held to a higher standard than the public at large.

As for this sewing circle gossip party circle jerking conspiracy theorist junky... I also like hearing actual cops on subjects relating to policing. But I like hearing non cops viewpoints as well. And while I consider the latter less expert in the field of police work than the former I also many times find them no less valid and even occasionally less bias.

:thumbsup2:

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"The right of self defence is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." - St. George Tucker

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For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding." - Jeff Snyder

Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the monarch of all he surveys. It realizes the ancient dream of the Jovian thunderbolt, and as such it is the embodiment of personal power. For this reason it exercises a curious influence over the minds of most men, and in its best examples it constitutes an object of affection unmatched by any other inanimate object.

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SUGGEST CASE BE SUBMITTED ON APPELLANT'S BRIEF. UNABLE TO OBTAIN ANY MONEY FROM CLIENTS TO BE PRESENT & ARGUE BRIEF.

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You don't need to go to Law School to understand the constitutional implications of that.

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MadPick wrote:
Bob Ferguson is a total piece of shit. Of this, I am convinced.

cityslicker wrote:
I don't want to be told that I can't remove the tree by some tree-hugging pole smoker from the eat-a-dick foundation/Olympia/King County.

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Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:35 am
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Well, I haven't read the whole thread, I'll admit, but I'll still toss my 2 cents in...

I've had 3 traffic stops while armed, and one while my pistol was in the glovebox. In the former 3 instances, I've handed over my CPL at the same time as my DL and registration, and not had a single problem. Cop asked "are you currently armed?" and when I responded affirmatively, I was simply told "please don't touch or reach for it" and no further hassle.

In the latter case, the cop asked for my DL and registration. I handed over DL and CPL, then informed him "my registration is in the glovebox, along with my pistol. Do you want me to get it?" and was told "no, if there's a gun in there, please don't reach for it."

None of these resulted in any kind of hassle, aside from a couple of speeding tickets.

Be polite, be respectful, and you'll usually be on your way shortly....

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Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:10 am
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:thumbsup2:
Yeah more people giving their rights up. We are in a not required to inform state. Don't ask don't tell. :facepalm2:

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Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:35 am
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golddigger14s wrote:
:thumbsup2:
Yeah more people giving their rights up. We are in a not required to inform state. Don't ask don't tell. :facepalm2:


What RIGHT did he give up?


Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:31 am
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Massivedesign wrote:
golddigger14s wrote:
:thumbsup2:
Yeah more people giving their rights up. We are in a not required to inform state. Don't ask don't tell. :facepalm2:


What RIGHT did he give up?

The one he paid for?

If you tell someone about it, it's no longer 'concealed', even if they don't see it...

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Holding onto unforgiveness and resentment is like drinking poison and expecting that other person to die. Anger will eat you up.


Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:38 am
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