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 Denied firearm purchase from LGS 
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WaJim wrote:
.
Its either become any reason to trip up the purchaser...............
Or
Every establishment is covering their ass three ways from Sunday.

My bet is on the second reason.


It has nothing to do with the dealer....It is a new mandate on the NICS system.
If the dealer is running an E-Check, the dealer MUST check a box on the NICS site that states that the info matches EXACTLY...If you don't check the box, it will not let you continue with the E-Check.

As stated earlier, if the dealer calls in the NICS check, the first question they ask is if the info matches exactly.

The changed, without notice, about a month or so ago.

As I understand it, dealers may allow the customer to correct the first section of the 4473 prior to the NICS check. However, it is most likely up to the individual dealer.

And yes, it is a pain in the ass....

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Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:40 pm
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Nitro_Guns wrote:
WaJim wrote:
.
Its either become any reason to trip up the purchaser...............
Or
Every establishment is covering their ass three ways from Sunday.

My bet is on the second reason.


It has nothing to do with the dealer....It is a new mandate on the NICS system.
If the dealer is running an E-Check, the dealer MUST check a box on the NICS site that states that the info matches EXACTLY...If you don't check the box, it will not let you continue with the E-Check.

As stated earlier, if the dealer calls in the NICS check, the first question they ask is if the info matches exactly.

The changed, without notice, about a month or so ago.

As I understand it, dealers may allow the customer to correct the first section of the 4473 prior to the NICS check. However, it is most likely up to the individual dealer.

And yes, it is a pain in the ass....

So the customer puts Nicolas Ignacious ConSatre on the form, and the customer's DL says Nicolas I. ConSatre.

I don't see the problem with saying the form and the DL are identical.

Unless, of course one has become so ethically and mentally lazy as to be one who would debate what the meaning of "IS" is...

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How can I help you, and/or make you smile, today?

They can have my gun, when they have given up all of theirs.

More gun laws make more people criminals. When you make more people criminals, more people will act like criminals.

Personally, I'd like to see cops kill fewer people, and the courts kill more of them.~snozzberries
The big takeaway is that PETA now has more mass shooters than the NRA. ~RocketScott


Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:53 pm
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The federal form asks if the ID (to include supplemental documents) matches "exactly," what the person puts down. It also says that the name must be complete.

So yes, the federal government is saying that everyone in the country needs to have their ID or license updated, or to have a second form of ID that has everything.

Kind of like how they require you to have a Real ID Act compliant ID to fly or enter a military base.


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Last edited by Unicorn on Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:03 pm
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Selador wrote:
Nitro_Guns wrote:
WaJim wrote:
.
Its either become any reason to trip up the purchaser...............
Or
Every establishment is covering their ass three ways from Sunday.

My bet is on the second reason.


It has nothing to do with the dealer....It is a new mandate on the NICS system.
If the dealer is running an E-Check, the dealer MUST check a box on the NICS site that states that the info matches EXACTLY...If you don't check the box, it will not let you continue with the E-Check.

As stated earlier, if the dealer calls in the NICS check, the first question they ask is if the info matches exactly.

The changed, without notice, about a month or so ago.

As I understand it, dealers may allow the customer to correct the first section of the 4473 prior to the NICS check. However, it is most likely up to the individual dealer.

And yes, it is a pain in the ass....

So the customer puts Nicolas Ignacious ConSatre on the form, and the customer's DL says Nicolas I. ConSatre.

I don't see the problem with saying the form and the DL are identical.

Unless, of course one has become so ethically and mentally lazy as to be one who would debate what the meaning of "IS" is...


I agree with you. I was not justifying it just trying to explain this stupid shit...

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Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:11 pm
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dreadi wrote:
Chinese folks are welcomed at Black Hammer Arms.



what about koreans??? :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby: :angryfire: :angryfire: :crybaby: :crybaby: :AR15firing: :AR15firing:


Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:20 pm
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Unicorn wrote:
The federal form asks if the ID (to include supplemental documents) matches "exactly," what the person puts down. It also says that the name must be complete.

So yes, the federal government is saying that everyone in the country needs to have their ID or license updated, or to have a second form of ID that has everything.

Kind of like how they require you to have a Real ID Act compliant ID to fly or enter a military base.

So that eventually we can be stopped on the street for no reason whatever, and be asked for our papers?

Seems more like nazi germany every month. Slowly. Step by jack-booted step.

Nitro_Guns wrote:
Selador wrote:
So the customer puts Nicolas Ignacious ConSatre on the form, and the customer's DL says Nicolas I. ConSatre.

I don't see the problem with saying the form and the DL are identical.

Unless, of course one has become so ethically and mentally lazy as to be one who would debate what the meaning of "IS" is...


I agree with you. I was not justifying it just trying to explain this stupid shit...

I thought so. :bigsmile: I just didn't write enough to make that clear.

I never know whether to write a novella so as many people as possible understand me... Or just write what I think and take my chances. LOL

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-Jeff

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How can I help you, and/or make you smile, today?

They can have my gun, when they have given up all of theirs.

More gun laws make more people criminals. When you make more people criminals, more people will act like criminals.

Personally, I'd like to see cops kill fewer people, and the courts kill more of them.~snozzberries
The big takeaway is that PETA now has more mass shooters than the NRA. ~RocketScott


Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:31 pm
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Gets even funnier when you're like me and have three middle names, only two of which fits on your DL and the third on your birth certificate is actually spelled wrong (will explain that one if anyone is curious). I've had the guy at the gun store lean over and go "Wait do you only have two middle names?" but the FBI doesn't seem to care at all. Some places even didn't parse the second middle name I had either!


Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:53 pm
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Nitro_Guns wrote:
WaJim wrote:
.
Its either become any reason to trip up the purchaser...............
Or
Every establishment is covering their ass three ways from Sunday.

My bet is on the second reason.


It has nothing to do with the dealer....It is a new mandate on the NICS system.
If the dealer is running an E-Check, the dealer MUST check a box on the NICS site that states that the info matches EXACTLY...If you don't check the box, it will not let you continue with the E-Check.

As stated earlier, if the dealer calls in the NICS check, the first question they ask is if the info matches exactly.

The changed, without notice, about a month or so ago.

As I understand it, dealers may allow the customer to correct the first section of the 4473 prior to the NICS check. However, it is most likely up to the individual dealer.

And yes, it is a pain in the ass....


Can you explain what is meant by having the IO on the instructions for the name?

I read that a few times and not sure what it actually meant. How can they say that initials are OK but at the same time a buyer needs to provide their full name?

Not being confrontational. I honestly want to know what they mean, or even if they know what they are saying

In the OPs situation it seems like all they needed to do was have him fill out another form, only use his middle initial, and put IO after it

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Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:08 pm
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Mr. Q wrote:
dreadi wrote:
Chinese folks are welcomed at Black Hammer Arms.



what about koreans??? :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby: :angryfire: :angryfire: :crybaby: :crybaby: :AR15firing: :AR15firing:


Only if they come in Roof Korean costume.

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Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:10 pm
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Roof Koreans are Bad Ass, they are welcome at my house anytime. :wagwoot:

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Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:17 pm
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Damn, I’m only an offspring of a rooftop Korean :(




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Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:23 pm
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I think that's close enough

Now, if you turn out to only be 1024th rooftop Korean we might take issue...

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Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:48 pm
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RocketScott wrote:
Nitro_Guns wrote:
WaJim wrote:
.
Its either become any reason to trip up the purchaser...............
Or
Every establishment is covering their ass three ways from Sunday.

My bet is on the second reason.


It has nothing to do with the dealer....It is a new mandate on the NICS system.
If the dealer is running an E-Check, the dealer MUST check a box on the NICS site that states that the info matches EXACTLY...If you don't check the box, it will not let you continue with the E-Check.

As stated earlier, if the dealer calls in the NICS check, the first question they ask is if the info matches exactly.

The changed, without notice, about a month or so ago.

As I understand it, dealers may allow the customer to correct the first section of the 4473 prior to the NICS check. However, it is most likely up to the individual dealer.

And yes, it is a pain in the ass....


Can you explain what is meant by having the IO on the instructions for the name?

I read that a few times and not sure what it actually meant. How can they say that initials are OK but at the same time a buyer needs to provide their full name?

Not being confrontational. I honestly want to know what they mean, or even if they know what they are saying

In the OPs situation it seems like all they needed to do was have him fill out another form, only use his middle initial, and put IO after it


As I understand it, not required to use your "full" name. What they have said is that the information on the ID MUST EXACTLY MATCH the information provided on the 4473.

Here is the exact wording from NICS:

"Do the name, date of birth, and place of residence in Section A on the ATF Form 4473 exactly match the valid government-issued photo identification (to include supplemental) document(s) provided to you AND do questions 11b through 11i and 12b and 12c have a “No” response?"

The IO caption, I would assume, is for people that ONLY have an initial as a middle name.

Bottom line is.....Fill out the 4473 the way that your ID shows....

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Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:49 pm
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Mr. Q wrote:
Damn, I’m only an offspring of a rooftop Korean :(




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Close enough, you are in. :wagwoot:

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Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:05 pm
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Nitro_Guns wrote:
RocketScott wrote:
Nitro_Guns wrote:
WaJim wrote:
.
Its either become any reason to trip up the purchaser...............
Or
Every establishment is covering their ass three ways from Sunday.

My bet is on the second reason.


It has nothing to do with the dealer....It is a new mandate on the NICS system.
If the dealer is running an E-Check, the dealer MUST check a box on the NICS site that states that the info matches EXACTLY...If you don't check the box, it will not let you continue with the E-Check.

As stated earlier, if the dealer calls in the NICS check, the first question they ask is if the info matches exactly.

The changed, without notice, about a month or so ago.

As I understand it, dealers may allow the customer to correct the first section of the 4473 prior to the NICS check. However, it is most likely up to the individual dealer.

And yes, it is a pain in the ass....


Can you explain what is meant by having the IO on the instructions for the name?

I read that a few times and not sure what it actually meant. How can they say that initials are OK but at the same time a buyer needs to provide their full name?

Not being confrontational. I honestly want to know what they mean, or even if they know what they are saying

In the OPs situation it seems like all they needed to do was have him fill out another form, only use his middle initial, and put IO after it


As I understand it, not required to use your "full" name. What they have said is that the information on the ID MUST EXACTLY MATCH the information provided on the 4473.

Here is the exact wording from NICS:

"Do the name, date of birth, and place of residence in Section A on the ATF Form 4473 exactly match the valid government-issued photo identification (to include supplemental) document(s) provided to you AND do questions 11b through 11i and 12b and 12c have a “No” response?"

The IO caption, I would assume, is for people that ONLY have an initial as a middle name.

Bottom line is.....Fill out the 4473 the way that your ID shows....

Thats the way I understood it.

Unless the form itself demands that you fill in the full name. No middle initial allowed...

Even then, my "full name" as it appears on my DL only has my middle initial.

In fact, that is the way I have always filled it out. And I have never gotten even a delay.

_________________
-Jeff

Image

How can I help you, and/or make you smile, today?

They can have my gun, when they have given up all of theirs.

More gun laws make more people criminals. When you make more people criminals, more people will act like criminals.

Personally, I'd like to see cops kill fewer people, and the courts kill more of them.~snozzberries
The big takeaway is that PETA now has more mass shooters than the NRA. ~RocketScott


Last edited by Selador on Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:17 pm
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