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 Chinese Wuhan coronavirus aka COVID-19 - now in WA 
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News this morning from Fauci that tests with Remdesivir show promise for reducing the recovery time for hospitalized patients. FDA licensing is being fast-tracked with Gilead Sciences.

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Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:03 am
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jackass wrote:
leadcounsel wrote:
I'm not a medical professional. I have not watched the long video.

Again, haven't watched it. I've seen/heard the content is bunk.


You say you rely on unknown outside expertise to guide your opinion. I recommend you do some research.


It talk legal stuff for my professional all the time. My conclusion is that most non-lawyers are really dumb about the law. And some lawyers are even really bad at law.

If this were some big esoteric legal debate with similar unknowns and patterns, and two lawyers posted a long video, and several major law organizations akin to the American Bar Association and other professionals came out and said it's full of hogwash and the two lawyers have serious financial conflicts of interest, that would generally satisfy my curiosity.

Same thing here. Groups and individuals who are medical experts have effectively "peer reviewed" that video and shot it down, hard.

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Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:03 am
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leadcounsel wrote:
They are apparently frauds with an agenda.


https://www.aaem.org/resources/statemen ... nformation

As owners of local urgent care clinics, it appears these two individuals are releasing biased, non-peer reviewed data to advance their personal financial interests without regard for the public’s health.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Biased, so what?

Non-peer reviewed, but based on personal observation.

Personal financial interest, how so?

And I don't see "fraud" mentioned in the statement.

Ad hominem attacks instead of rebutting point by point.


Last edited by jackass on Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:11 am
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jackass wrote:
leadcounsel wrote:
Serious question, not being argumentative.

Have you critically thought about, and watched the videos coming from China, why/where a grand scale human and animal catastrophy is unfolding? The "over-reaction" if it's just a bad flu?

When was the last time nations were locked down in large scale over a worry about the flu? This is larger than H1N1, swine flu, MERS, SARS, etc. IIRC.


(From 2/19)

Looking back, I think we were played. Perfect propaganda. Remember the Great Firewall of China? Yet leaked videos of the carnage and suffering got out. Why wasn't Shanghai or Beijing hit? Yeah sure, there was a virus of some sort exacerbated by the poor living conditions of the Chinese (dirty air, bad food, unhygienic conditions), and it went here, exacerbated by the poor health of Americans (obesity, smoking, diabetes, aged). But those videos got us and the rest of the world freaked out.

Since there are multiple strains here, that attack different portions of our body, e.g. lungs, heart, testicles, could these have been seeded here?

Like a murder, who benefits?

I think it was a good idea to collect everything into one thread, it's great for historical purposes and looking back.


Anyone can see China lied, bigtime, about their deaths [and/or the nature of the virus]. That virus was running loose in areas with the largest and most population dense locations in the world (outside of India). 60 MILLION in Hubei (more than the entire population of California, or Spain, comparable to Italy). 11 million in Wuhan, larger than NYC's 8 million (total state 19 million).

With lockdowns and quarantines and general knowledge and use of PPE:
* NY has 23,000 dead. Twenty Three Thousand...
* California is a very clean and low-density state and has ~1900 dead.
* Italy 207,000 infected and 27,000 dead
* Spain 236,000 infected and 24,000 dead
* US has 60,000 dead.

There's simply no way, no how, not happening that China only suffered 80,000 infections and 3000 dead in the early months of this virus in those dense locations. [Unless they had vaccinated the population, which means it was a bio-engineered virus and opens a lot of cans of worms.]

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Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:11 am
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jackass wrote:
leadcounsel wrote:
They are apparently frauds with an agenda.


https://www.aaem.org/resources/statemen ... nformation

As owners of local urgent care clinics, it appears these two individuals are releasing biased, non-peer reviewed data to advance their personal financial interests without regard for the public’s health.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Biased, so what?

Non-peer reviewed, but based on personal observation.

Personal financial interest, how so?

And I don't see "fraud" mentioned in the statement.

Ad hominem attacks instead of rebutting point by point.


Advancing personal financial interest = conflict of interest
Advancing unsound MEDICAL advice to make money = snake oil salesman
Snake oil salesman = fraud

And I wrote "allegedly." I'm not a doctor and didn't watch the video. Don't need to, and it's like Peanuts' adults to me. It's sufficient when the broader medical community and other doctors go public and rip the video top to bottom, as I've seen.

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Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:15 am
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I've watched the thread go back and forth. For the most part, this guy will explain what's going on and why most people feel why they do:

https://zdoggmd.com/covid-politics/?fbc ... Ekp4OrfQB4


Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:23 am
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On the opposite end, Sweden has a population of 10m, very few restrictions, and only 2400 deaths, and has been instead going for "herd immunity" because they realize it is going to infect X% of the population no matter what. They didnt even shut down schools, the only restrictions they had were banning groups of over 50 people. Bars, restaurants businesses stayed open.

Yes the death figures are high, but by the time this runs it's course, most countries will reach the same percent per-capita unless a vaccine comes out, and will have tanked their economy.


Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:24 am
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leadcounsel wrote:
Advancing personal financial interest = conflict of interest

First there were zero examples how how they did this, and second, is advancing your personal financial interest bad? I think it is a leap of reasoning to say "Conflict of interest"? Based on what?

leadcounsel wrote:
Advancing unsound MEDICAL advice to make money = snake oil salesman

Biased, non-peer reviewed data was alleged, not unsound medical advice. Did you watch the video?

leadcounsel wrote:
Snake oil salesman = fraud

How so? Anyone die or injured?

leadcounsel wrote:
And I wrote "allegedly." I'm not a doctor and didn't watch the video. Don't need to, and it's like Peanuts' adults to me. It's sufficient when the broader medical community and other doctors go public and rip the video top to bottom, as I've seen.

So if you prefix accusations with "allegedly" you do not run the risk of libel.


Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:26 am
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leadcounsel wrote:
And I wrote "allegedly." I'm not a doctor and didn't watch the video. Don't need to, and it's like Peanuts' adults to me. It's sufficient when the broader medical community and other doctors go public and rip the video top to bottom, as I've seen.

Consensus. Hmmm. Where have I heard that used to shutdown discussion/argument before? :wink05:

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Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:27 am
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shaggy wrote:
On the opposite end, Sweden has a population of 10m, very few restrictions, and only 2400 deaths, and has been instead going for "herd immunity" because they realize it is going to infect X% of the population no matter what. They didnt even shut down schools, the only restrictions they had were banning groups of over 50 people. Bars, restaurants businesses stayed open.

Yes the death figures are high, but by the time this runs it's course, most countries will reach the same percent per-capita unless a vaccine comes out, and will have tanked their economy.


And I think that Sweden is a very interesting case study. What's going on there, do people have different genetics, or is it less dense, or is the environment less favorable to the virus, or are people more hygienic, or travel less...

It could be any or none of those variables, it could be dumb luck, it could be that they are early in the curve, it could be the best approach.

But other nations that tried herd immunity got socked with vast infections and deaths that they all reversed course - Italy, Spain, France, UK, US... Just look at NYC. They tried "herd immunity" for a couple weeks. Now have 24,000 dead...

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Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:57 am
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/20 ... 048206001/

Costco will require all customers and employees to wear masks or other face coverings starting May 4, to prevent the spread of COVID-19.


Last edited by jackass on Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:58 am
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https://youtu.be/RCRfxQ38TXE

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Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:58 am
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Excellent video. Thanks for posting!

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Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:48 am
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new daddy wrote:
I've watched the thread go back and forth. For the most part, this guy will explain what's going on and why most people feel why they do:

https://zdoggmd.com/covid-politics/?fbc ... Ekp4OrfQB4


Agreed - good commentary.


Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:05 pm
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jackass wrote:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/04/29/costco-require-all-members-wear-face-masks-starting-monday/3048206001/

Costco will require all customers and employees to wear masks or other face coverings starting May 4, to prevent the spread of COVID-19.

Since nearly every place that might stock N95 masks are "Out of Stock" will Costco be handing them out at the door?

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Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:12 pm
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