Pasco police kill man for throwing rocks

[ANZAC]

I think one of the original articles said he was "visiting".

[ANZAC]

I do not agree. I have been hit square in side of the head from 20 yards with a full can of pop and I barely flinched even though I didn't see it coming. I agree that a rock could possibly kill someone if they had multiple shots and got very lucky.......but the chances of someone actually getting seriously injured? Almost nil. Have you ever tried running and throwing things at a target? Especially rocks with an uneven spin? Unless Randy Johnson shrank and had a bunch of melanin pumped into him than I would have felt very safe being those officers. How many people have been hit with a 90+ fastball and lived? That's right all of them but one in 1920.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Chapman

That can of pop hit might explain a few things but I digress.

I knew a fellow grunt that was killed by a rock throw when I was stationed at Ft. Irwin in the 80's. We used to fuck around and have rock fights, because it was the intelligent thing to do when you were bored out in the field. I wasn't present when it happened but he was hit in the head by a rather small rock. The problem was that he had an undiagnosed tumor that was ruptured when the rock struck him. He died pretty instantly. The command cracked down hard on our little fuck fuck games after that. True story though. Rocks can indeed be deadly.

Check out this link for rock throw fatalities:
http://www.idfblog.com/blog/2013/03/18/rocks-can-kill/

All you need to do is knock someone down with a rock and then pound a rock into their head. Plenty of people killed by having their skull bashed in with a rock. It is definitely a lethal weapon.

By the way, this situation seems familiar:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/arizona/a ... illed.html

[finster]

I do not agree. I have been hit square in side of the head from 20 yards with a full can of pop and I barely flinched even though I didn't see it coming. I agree that a rock could possibly kill someone if they had multiple shots and got very lucky.......but the chances of someone actually getting seriously injured? Almost nil. Have you ever tried running and throwing things at a target? Especially rocks with an uneven spin? Unless Randy Johnson shrank and had a bunch of melanin pumped into him than I would have felt very safe being those officers. How many people have been hit with a 90+ fastball and lived? That's right all of them but one in 1920.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Chapman

That can of pop hit might explain a few things but I digress.

I knew a fellow grunt that was killed by a rock throw when I was stationed at Ft. Irwin in the 80's. We used to fuck around and have rock fights, because it was the intelligent thing to do when you were bored out in the field. I wasn't present when it happened but he was hit in the head by a rather small rock. The problem was that he had an undiagnosed tumor that was ruptured when the rock struck him. He died pretty instantly. The command cracked down hard on our little fuck fuck games after that. True story though. Rocks can indeed be deadly.

Check out this link for rock throw fatalities:
http://www.idfblog.com/blog/2013/03/18/rocks-can-kill/

All you need to do is knock someone down with a rock and then pound a rock into their head. Plenty of people killed by having their skull bashed in with a rock. It is definitely a lethal weapon.

By the way, this situation seems familiar:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/arizona/a ... illed.html

So what you're saying is that the rock thrower was going to knock down one officer and then pound his skull in while the other officers waited for their turn? Really?

Also your article only seems to reinforce my point. Please show me an example where an armed officer was seriously injured or killed by a rock wielding assassin.

[Massivedesign]

All you need to do is knock someone down with a rock and then pound a rock into their head. Plenty of people killed by having their skull bashed in with a rock. It is definitely a lethal weapon.

Anything can be used as a deadly weapon.. It's not deadly until it.. well.. is. Under some of the defenses, I should be able to shoot at passing cars on the road because they "could hit me"?

[PMB]

Ergo, the thread BK started regarding items that have killed more people than your guns.

Shall we sanction the lethal force for threateningly wielding a spatula?

This is not in ANY way a defense of throwing rocks at someone. If someone were to throw a rock at me, reach for his crotch and lean forward, would I be justified in pulling out my tool of freedom and killing him? I think no, but of course there is room for lots of nuance. As brought up several times in this thread- what happened before the film started rolling? Was there something that the LE saw that hasn't shown up as evidence yet?
Did the police see someone else in imminent danger from this rather manic fellow?
I try not to judge before facts- but I expect and we The People deserve that LE faces the same or more stringent scrutiny after using deadly force.

If there were 3 of "us" being threatened by a man running away (!?) would we be justified? I am very confident that any standard citizen would face some serious legal work after blazing away in that scenario. The expectation should be that all non-lethal forms of detainment are tried before pulling out the trusty bang stick and ventilating.

Is throwing a rock at a police officer any worse than throwing a rock at you or me? I don't think so. The chances of it ending poorly for the rock tosser are a bit higher than when throwing at a "man on the street" but I do not believe that it is any worse an action.

[TechnoWeenie]

Looks like Mr. Ryan Flannigan is no stranger to excess use of force and rights violations....

In 2009, a 30-year old Hispanic woman, Maria Davila-Marquez was driving her vehicle in Pasco, Washington. Police officers in the area were looking for a teenaged Hispanic girl who was creating a disturbance. Officer Ryan Flanagan and officer Zachary Fairley saw Davila and stopped her, even though she was about twice the age of the teenager they were really looking for. Davila couldn’t speak English very well and neither officer could speak Spanish. So the officers handcuffed her, slammed her against the car hood, and held her there until she received second-degree burns from the engine heat, and searched her even though department policy required them to call a female officer to do that.

Although Davila had requested an interpreter, the officers refused to call one. Then the complainant showed up and said that Davila was not the teenager (duh), so the officers charged her with interfering with public duties. So Davila sued the officers, the chief, and the city. She wasn’t able to show a pattern or policy of misconduct, so the court dismissed with prejudice the case against the chief and the city, see Davila-Marquez v. City of Pasco, No. CV-12-5059-LRS, 2103 WL 1136658 (E.D. Wash. Mar. 18, 2013). The case against the officers remained, however and rather than go to trial, the city settled for $100,000.

And, the most telling, IMO....

In an article at the time, Pasco City Manager Gary Crutchfield said that although Davila did not meet the description of a teenager, the officers erred on the side of inclusion when they arrested her. Crutchfield is lucky that Pasco had already settled. In the United States, we don’t err on the side of inclusion when arresting someone. We either have probable cause, or we don’t.

Ummm... yeah... you don't arrest someone because they might possibly kinda could be the person you're looking for. You're looking for a teenage girl, not a grown woman. Clothing or vehicle description?

Yeah, 'hispanic teenager driving a white 4 door' (or whatever) is not descriptive enough to act upon, IMO.

[kf7mjf]

Brown people are scary. Their culture is different and they might take jobs. Just like those filthy Italians and Irish came and did.

[PMB]

We wuz hear furst!! kinda. (I think I just went completely off topic. That mocking imitation had -nothing- to do with the rock tossing shooting thread. hah!)

[BadKarma]

Apparently the rock thrower has been through the legal system a time or two also. I guess he has thrown his last rock.

[PMB]

Brown people are scary.

Now there's a sentiment I can get behind. Maybe Terrifying is a better descriptor though.

RESIZEDscn0009.jpg

I live in abject terror every day. Nights are even worse.

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

[ANZAC]

All you need to do is knock someone down with a rock and then pound a rock into their head. Plenty of people killed by having their skull bashed in with a rock. It is definitely a lethal weapon.

Anything can be used as a deadly weapon.. It's not deadly until it.. well.. is. Under some of the defenses, I should be able to shoot at passing cars on the road because they "could hit me"?

He wasn't shot because he had a rock in his pocket, he was using it, throwing rocks at people (and cars).
If a car tries to run you down, then it is being used.

[ANZAC]

If there were 3 of "us" being threatened by a man running away (!?) would we be justified?

If they are a fleeing felon, and you were assisting a police officer, yes.

I am very confident that any standard citizen would face some serious legal work after blazing away in that scenario. The expectation should be that all non-lethal forms of detainment are tried before pulling out the trusty bang stick and ventilating.

So what other non-lethal forms of detainment do you think the police should have tried? Group hug?

Is throwing a rock at a police officer any worse than throwing a rock at you or me? I don't think so. The chances of it ending poorly for the rock tosser are a bit higher than when throwing at a "man on the street" but I do not believe that it is any worse an action.

It isn't "worse", but the criteria for deadly force is different in WA for police than the public. The dual standard is in fact mention in the RCW, but if you read it carefully, I think the police have more latitude than the public, and I agree that's counter intuitive.

[STED9R]

Is throwing a rock at a police officer any worse than throwing a rock at you or me? I don't think so. The chances of it ending poorly for the rock tosser are a bit higher than when throwing at a "man on the street" but I do not believe that it is any worse an action.

It isn't "worse", but the criteria for deadly force is different in WA for police than the public. The dual standard is in fact mention in the RCW, but if you read it carefully, I think the police have more latitude than the public, and I agree that's counter intuitive.

If one has shown the willingness and ability to attempt, or succeed, in injuring a peace officer, cop, that same person would be much more willing and aggressive to hurt any John Q Public.
I fully believe that someone that is willing to cause injury to a police officer, is far more dangerous than someone that would assault you, but think twice about assaulting a cop.

[TechnoWeenie]

The dual standard is in fact mention in the RCW, but if you read it carefully, I think the police have more latitude than the public, and I agree that's counter intuitive.

NEGATIVE!

Those are restrictions, with specific exemptions.

It clearly states that citizens have 'more power' than cops do...

Legislative recognition: "The legislature recognizes that RCW 9A.16.040 establishes a dual standard with respect to the use of deadly force by peace officers and private citizens, and further recognizes that private citizens' permissible use of deadly force under the authority of RCW 9.01.200, 9A.16.020, or 9A.16.050 is not restricted and remains broader than the limitations imposed on peace officers."

[finster]

If there were 3 of "us" being threatened by a man running away (!?) would we be justified?

If they are a fleeing felon, and you were assisting a police officer, yes.

So if you are a fleeing felon and have assaulted a police officer than you can justifiably be executed in the street?