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Oh I believe it.

I believe it very much.

Well, duh...
The amount absolute idiots I see every day on campus is boggling.

Oh. I thought "oh crap" was in reference to the cz 75 sp-01sport tactical being out of stock and unavailable to order. But yeah, unskilled kids suck too.

Whatever happened to sweat shops. That'll learn em some skills real quick.

But, but...we paid all those test companies to torture teenagers with high stakes exams. That didn't help?!? Shiiiiiiiiit, it must have been those overpaid lazy teachers - those hacks...frickin' leeches.

Okay, let's get serious about education - more tests, more grade inflation and let's make it easier to become a teacher while we're at it.

I aint skilled in nothing but eating, shitting, playing video games and sitting on my ass... go figure

They lumped us in with Poland, Ireland and the Slovak Republic? Ouch

sinus211 wrote:They lumped us in with Poland, Ireland and the Slovak Republic? Ouch

Yep...that's the type of education we're prioritizing. South Korea, Japan, Finland and Norway (the countries that scored the highest) intentionally recruit the smartest people to become teachers and then pay them extremely well. They also don't dick around with constant meaningless standardized tests or other fads like charter schools and Teach for America which aren't backed up with any data.

Benja455 wrote:

sinus211 wrote:They lumped us in with Poland, Ireland and the Slovak Republic? Ouch

Yep...that's the type of education we're prioritizing. South Korea, Japan, Finland and Norway (the countries that scored the highest) intentionally recruit the smartest people to become teachers and then pay them extremely well. They also don't dick around with constant meaningless standardized tests or other fads like charter schools and Teach for America which aren't backed up with any data.

All the education majors I knew in college were stoners, weirdos or too lazy to pursue a functional major.

Although I left with a sociology major so wtf do I know?

sinus211 wrote:

Benja455 wrote:

sinus211 wrote:They lumped us in with Poland, Ireland and the Slovak Republic? Ouch

Yep...that's the type of education we're prioritizing. South Korea, Japan, Finland and Norway (the countries that scored the highest) intentionally recruit the smartest people to become teachers and then pay them extremely well. They also don't dick around with constant meaningless standardized tests or other fads like charter schools and Teach for America which aren't backed up with any data.

All the education majors I knew in college were stoners, weirdos or too lazy to pursue a functional major.

Although I left with a sociology major so wtf do I know?

You're absolutely right...at most colleges being an education major is where all the kids with low GPAs run. There are a number of colleges who have really rigorous teacher preparation programs but they are fairly uncommon (and there's no government or private sector urgency to duplicate those programs). Again...look at what the countries who scored well are doing - they recruit the best college graduates, offer them free graduate school and comfortable salaries to become a teacher. We don't do any of that...so, it's one of those "you get what you pay for" situations (the constant disrespect by the general public and most politicians also disincentives people from choosing the field).

Our elementary-high school is a complete joke...

By the time I was in 1st grade I knew enough math to cover me through 5th grade via my mom using old school Russian textbooks. (She is horrible at math herself).

World History is almost as pitiful as math.

Hell even college classes were filled with horrible professors.

Teachers and professors need to be tested/evaluated regularly.

Rusoarmo wrote:Hell even college classes were filled with horrible professors.

Teachers and professors need to be tested/evaluated regularly.

As I said before, we're not recruiting, training, compensating or retaining good teachers - so, it's no surprise we're getting poor results. Most of them passed a test to become a teacher in the first place (although, it was probably a really easy test). A few states have tried to make those tests harder and then they had teacher shortages and had to hire substitutes which were mostly the folks who failed the test. Testing them on a regular basis won't help - it will just piss off the good ones and they will quit for another job where they are respected more. So, it goes back to recruiting the best, rigorous training and paying them like they work for MSFT.

College professors aren't trained to be teachers, they are trained to be researchers...and at most 4 year institutions they aren't rewarded (via promotions or raises) for good teaching, they are rewarded for their research, publications and the grant money they pull in. Change what college administrations and US New & World Report prioritizes and you'll get better professors.

Rusoarmo wrote:...Hell even college classes were filled with horrible professors...

I am currently dealing with a professor (not tenured, yet, hopefully never) who is more interested in activism than teaching.
Unfortunately, this professor has quite the resume, so their lack of teaching tends to be over looked by many in high places.
The amounts of complaints against this professor are mounting though, I have logged seven since January. They asked me to provide a reference so they could apply for tenure. I declined and have spoken with my adviser many times to see what else I can do to make it so this professor stops what, in my opinion, is wasting a student's time and money.

Okay, but what about making smart use of technology, where Millennials are said to shine? Again, America scored at the bottom of the heap, in a four-way tie for last place with the Slovak Republic, Ireland, and Poland.

What...they don't have the best technology in the world in the Slovak Republic, Ireland and Poland?!? Who knew?


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This stems from lack of accountability, on both the end of the student and the parents over the past two decades. Too many parents don't hold their kid to a higher standard, and don't expect more from them in both behavior and academics. Not everyone, but too many folks out there. Kids get the pass from parents to misbehave in class or not turn in completed work. Or in some cases if a kid has some remote sickness the parent is quick to keep the kid home. Some parents use those kid illnesses as excuses to stay home from work themselves. Again a lack of accountability, which is growing in a give me a hand out society.

I do have to say that the new high stakes tests that are being used are setting students up to fail. There are lots of questions that ask students to choose from answers that can be justified with text based evidence, but in a multiple choice test they give students too many choices for answers that can be justified from the text with no way for students to provide their justification.

If folks want to see an improvement in global markets schools are going to need to increase the number of days students are in schools. Countries that are out preforming America typically have more school days.